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Subject: JSF Briefing Canberra
gf0012-aust    11/6/2008 3:53:47 AM
UNCLASSIFIED ‘THE JOINT STRIKE FIGHTER’—A PRESENTATION BY MR TOM BURBAGE, EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT, LOCKHEED–MARTIN AERONAUTICS, IN THE RUSSELL OFFICES R1 GROUND FLOOR THEATRETTE ON TUESDAY, 11 NOVEMBER 2008 AT 1700 HOURS Mr Tom Burbage, Executive Vice President, Lockheed-Martin Aeronautics, will address the United Services Institute of the Australian Capital Territory (USI of the ACT) on ‘The Joint Strike Fighter’ on Tuesday, 11 November 2008 in the Russell Offices R1 Ground Floor Theatrette at 1700 h. Mr Burbage will provide a detailed overview of the background to, and current status of the multinational Joint Strike Fighter Project. In the context of changing global strategic requirements he will also share his thoughts about the ability of the Joint Strike Fighter to meet Australia’s future Air Combat Capability needs.
 
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Aussie Diggermark 2       11/6/2008 8:34:13 AM
Are you going?
 
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gf0012-aust       11/6/2008 10:02:45 AM

Are you going?


yep.  :)  abe can't though.  he'll be travelling.  a couple of T5's will be there.
 
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JWCook    Questions   11/10/2008 9:12:13 PM
It would be nice to go as I would like to know how the currency markets are affecting the program? eg price of Titanium\labour foreign competitiveness for the workshare etc. I have a few questions if anyone who is going is feeling brave.
 
Is the price being quoted held at the exchange rate for any date in particular or is it when you sign up etc..
 
Hows the flight test program looking? as it the most agressive I've ever come across and its not going well at the moment.
 
and finally is the access to the technology been sorted out yet, as this is one thing the British are very very concerned about despite assurances theres nothing been put in writing..
 
Cheers

 

 
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gf0012-aust       11/10/2008 9:29:14 PM

It would be nice to go as I would like to know how the currency markets are affecting the program? eg price of Titanium\labour foreign competitiveness for the workshare etc. I have a few questions if anyone who is going is feeling brave.

Is the price being quoted held at the exchange rate for any date in particular or is it when you sign up etc..

The price is locked - the exchange rate would have to dive for 5 years straight before there was a serious impact.  currency fluctations have been one of the furphys continually thrown out.
 

Hows the flight test program looking? as it the most agressive I've ever come across and its not going well at the moment.

 Whats wrong with the flight tests?  No other aircraft in history has had sub systems parallel tested in such detail.  In fact the testing procedures have been smarter than any other program as the americans and the brits had the sense to conduct parallel platform testing on disparate platforms.  IIRC there are more than 8 different test beds in service - and none of those sub system platforms have failed.

and finally is the access to the technology been sorted out yet, as this is one thing the British are very very concerned about despite assurances theres nothing been put in writing..

we have the same assurances  as the brits - and they got the same message as us in brussels 2 weeks ago.  I don't know anyone who'd actually involved with the program who even remotely doubts the committments made.
 
The Guardian might be concerned, and politicians might make political colour and movement out of it - but the harsh reality is that agreements have been made and no one seems to be losing sleep (except the fruitcake brigade in australia like APA, Crikey and ELP
 
Quite frankly the people who regularly trot it out seem to me to be serial whiteanters and it wouldn't matter if the queen or god came out and said he trusted the process.
 

Cheers





 





 
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gf0012-aust       11/10/2008 9:50:23 PM

eg price of Titanium\labour foreign competitiveness for the workshare etc.


titanium - well considering that australia has close to 40% of the resource ready titanium diboride in the world, considering that we already sell that titanium to sub builders, considering that one of the new processes designed to form up titanium into complex shapes was australian developed - then I'd say that the issue of titanium is not less of an issue than always claimed.  In fact, we've been selling some of the process development to the germans for the last 5 years without impact.
 
workshare?  always a doozy.  I remember going to AIDN meetings where the squealers made lost of noise about what they were entitiled to but failed to demonstrate capabilty against other active competitors.  COnsequently, some australian (and euro) companies that went in quietly and early made a substantial inroad where others fell by the wayside.
 
Its a business  - not a charity - and if companies haven't worked out that the cake is only so big, so action over talking is important - then I have NO sympathy for them.
 
thats why the canadians did well - they kept quiet and got in early.  why in heavens name some countries are still squealing about workshare for their industry when its the responsibility of industry to get on with it and do their own job is beyond me.
 
again, these companies that think that their country has an obligation to get them work when all the early starters had the sense to do it themselves without making noise would seem to make it pretty apparent that they weren't up to playing in a bigger sandpit - they're not owed work, they have to earn it like everyone else has done.
 
It's business, not industrial socialism
 
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gf0012-aust       11/11/2008 1:54:40 AM
After all that, it didn't happen.
 
Building got locked down after a suspicious parcel was received.  2 hrs of standing around waiting for the all clear.
 
There was some interesting chat from some of the uniforms about APA though. :)  Universally regarded as wannabes with no concept of strat and tac planning...
 
It was a joy to hear... :

 
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Aussie Diggermark 2       11/11/2008 4:39:27 AM

After all that, it didn't happen.

 

Building got locked down after a suspicious parcel was received.  2 hrs of standing around waiting for the all clear.


 

There was some interesting chat from some of the uniforms about APA though. :)  Universally regarded as wannabes with no concept of strat and tac planning...

 

It was a joy to hear... :




Someone should fingerprint that suspicious parcel and see if it's linked to Goon's grubby little hands... :)

 
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gf0012-aust       11/11/2008 3:54:13 PM
Just a further comment on the issue of work share.
 
Govt invested $230 million to front up the partnership
To date - preproduction investment into the prototypes and CTD developments is $200 by industry - and thats with further announcements to happen in the next 2 months
Post production estimates are between $8 and $11billion for through life production and support for australian companies.
 
Of course, those who didn't make the effort to negotiate early and quietly will miss out (megaphone diplomacy is never a good way to negotiate contracts)
 
So, my commercial (and non military view) of the reality on extra work - tough schitt if companies took the wrong strategic approach to get business - and seriously, if they couldn't negotiate early and quietly to start securing work, then they should sack their commercial managers and negotiaters.
 
Its a bit cute by half to bleat about wanting work and not engaging early (like the majority of the successful existing industry partners)
 
I have no sympathy for companies that fail to exercise intelligent negotiating behaviour early and expect to come in and take other partners work just because they believe that they're "entitled" to work share.

 
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Zhang Fei    JSF ... clubbed like baby seals by the simulated Sukhois   7/24/2009 7:55:56 PM
Old news, but interesting. Comments, anyone?
 
THE federal Opposition has dismissed new doubts about the multi-billion dollar Joint Strike Fighter project and the jet's performance.
 
The JSF jets, for which Australia is likely to pay $16 billion, were comprehensively beaten in highly classified simulated dogfights against Russian Sukhoi fighters, it has been reported.

The war games, conducted at Hawaii's Hickam airbase last month, were witnessed by at least four RAAF personnel and a member of Australia's peak military spy agency, the Defence Intelligence Organisation, The West Australian said.

Opposition defence spokesman Nick Minchin said he was taking "with a grain of salt" the validity of the report.

"This is based on a computer game, computer modelling of the aircraft," he told Sky News.

"This is not real life."

Senator Minchin said he had a classified briefing on the JSF from its US manufacturer Lockheed-Martin which had promoted the aircraft as the most advanced jet fighter ever.

"I can't really say much about it, but this is a phenomenal aircraft.

"As our chief of defence Angus Houston has said this is a most extraordinary aircraft, it is the right aircraft for Australia."

The multi-purpose fighter would be the backbone of the United States military, Senator Minchin said.

"We are fortunate to be in it and the government should move to make the decision to acquire it."

WA Liberal backbencher Dennis Jensen said he had spoken to a third party with knowledge of the final classified test results who had claimed the JSF had been clubbed like baby seals by the simulated Sukhois, The West Australian reported.

He said the government should demand that the US Government sell it the F-22 which was already in operation instead of the JSF.

A response was been sought from the government.
 
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gf0012-aust       7/25/2009 10:10:23 PM
the cretins who claimed this didn't know that it was a Falconview simulation - not a Brawler simulation.  Falconview has got nothing to do with air combat sims.

eg, they reinforced publicly that they had no idea about the real exercise  and/or the parameters.

morons 
 
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