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Subject: Do we or will we have enough pilots for 75 F-35's and 24 SH's?
Volkodav    11/28/2008 6:00:59 AM
Considering our current dire shortage of fast jet jockies does it make sense to buy 75 to 100 F-35's when we don't and likely won't have the pilots to operate them? Would it not make sense to reduce the order to 50 or so airframes that we can use and invest the saved money in other areas that could make better use of it?
 
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Aussiegunneragain       11/28/2008 6:22:34 AM

We usually have about 60 qualified Bug pilots. However having more airframes allows them to be rotated to save airframe hours and to allow them to be taken offline for maintenance and upgrades. I'm not sure what the deal is with the Pigs but I suspect we might have 18 to 20 crews. Both the F-18F and the F-35 are designed for easier maintainability and upgradability than the types that they are replacing. Perhaps with that in mind we could get away with say 56 F-35's for 80 airframes all up?

 
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gf0012-aust       11/28/2008 6:58:15 AM

I'm not sure what the deal is with the Pigs but I suspect we might have 18 to 20 crews.

They're a problem in other areas - once we decided that they were not going to be extended, the maint guys started looking for other work - now we're in a situation where "some" might be kept flying longer to 2011 - but we don't have enough qualified ground crews to hold the fleet together anyway.

the existing crew will end up training for the shornets anyway - but the F-111's "as is"  are now turning into a circus.

 
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DropBear       11/28/2008 12:27:11 PM
The more I read about it, the more I like the Reaper UCAV.
 
It would be great to operate them alongside the F-35A in the coming decades.
 
Cap the F-35 purchase at 60 frames and retire the SH when JSF reaches full operational capacity.
 
Then replace SH with Reaper.
 
A Bear can dream...
 
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VelocityVector    Bear   11/28/2008 1:44:02 PM
According to how uncle operates, a Reaper mission requires *greater* numbers of flight crew as compared with shornet, -18 or -35 missions.  Oz would need to hire, train and retain extra "pilots" with Reaper, not cut them.

v^2
 
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Volkodav       11/30/2008 1:15:01 AM
According to how uncle operates, a Reaper mission requires *greater* numbers of flight crew as compared with shornet, -18 or -35 missions.  Oz would need to hire, train and retain extra "pilots" with Reaper, not cut them.
Or assign the role to the new Air Combat Officer mustering who while still very highly trained and capable are not pilots and there fore will not be poached by airlines.
 
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VelocityVector       11/30/2008 4:09:07 AM

According to how uncle operates, a Reaper mission requires *greater* numbers of flight crew as compared with shornet, -18 or -35 missions.  Oz would need to hire, train and retain extra "pilots" with Reaper, not cut them.


Or assign the role to the new Air Combat Officer mustering who while still very highly trained and capable are not pilots and there fore will not be poached by airlines.


Assign away!  Still, the pilot numbers required to operate Reaper are greater than numbers of those pilots needed to fly shorenet/-35.  Reaper mission pilots experience a delay from sensory publish, comprehension and control input to execution of appropriate command.  At least X seconds, plural seconds, delay.  This buffer works great from altitude with no obstacles.  Closer to ground, you will lose aircraft due to these latencies given crosswinds.  So uncle chooses to employ separate crew to fly each Reaper to "safe" altitude LOS, another set to land Reaper LOS if a different airfield, and then there are the mission crew(s) -- rotating every X hours -- who run the show from safe alti to landing pattern handoff.  So perhaps Oz can work this magic you describe using Oz SuperMan!!!; else perhaps not.  Back to my bench . . .
v^2
 
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Volkodav       11/30/2008 5:11:44 AM
So perhaps Oz can work this magic you describe using Oz SuperMan!!!; else perhaps not.  Back to my bench . . .
 
Not supermen just highly trained professionals.  Just as a Herc requires a different type of pilot to a Hornet it would be safe to say a UCAV is different again.  Easy way to stop airlines poaching UCAV pilots...dont train or certify them as pilots train them specifically to crew UCAV's.  I say crew because as you point out different skill sets are required for different evolutions during the misson.... none of these skill sets actually require to operator to be a licensed, manned aircraft pilot.
 
Looking forward, Australia will not be a leader in the intoduction of UCAV's but a follower, we will learn from the experiences of our friends and will no doubt adopt the best proven technology that suits our needs, probably towads the end of next decade or later.

 
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gf0012-aust       11/30/2008 5:33:19 AM
experience amongst the heavy UCAV/UAV users is showing that pilots are not the most approp people to use anyway.

it's also faster to train someone from scratch than to get a pilot to adapt the vagaries and nuances of UAV/UCAVs.


 
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Volkodav       12/4/2008 6:40:53 AM
There have been a couple of reports lately that Fitzgibon is looking at the Typhoon as an alternative to the F-35.
 
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Arty Farty       12/5/2008 12:06:54 AM

There have been a couple of reports lately that Fitzgibon is looking at the Typhoon as an alternative to the F-35.

Might be looking (presumably from his recent Euro trip) but I don't think it's a serious consideration. To be competitive it'd have to be the Tranche 3 and thats a long way off, if at all.
 
btw/ Carme Chacon, the Spanish defence minster, nice
 
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