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Subject: Reasoning behind MRH-90 ?
Kirkzzy    1/7/2011 12:37:28 PM
Hey I am pretty new around here and have been lurking for a couple of weeks. Sorry to bring back an old topic but, why is the ADF going for the NH-90/MRH-90? I hear there is quite a few issues, regarding weight and landing, although being no expert I am unsure. Not trying to make a VS thread or anything, but would it have been a better idea to stay with the Black Hawks we already have? And spend the money on refurbishing our current ones and getting additional Black Hawks to meet requirements?
 
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hairy man       1/7/2011 6:35:51 PM

I am no expert on the subject, but from a layman's point of view it was fairly obvious it was a better choice than the Blackhawk, having much greater carrying capacity plus the rear ramp.  Plus it was more desirable because the Europeans were prepared to allow us to assemble them in Australia, something the Yanks seem reluctant to agree with.   Range etc I am not sure of, but there are plenty of people more knowledgeable than me who can reply on those issues.

 
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Kirkzzy       1/7/2011 9:09:41 PM
Ahh I'm just wondering as there was that whole leaked German army report. However I wonder how the vehicle would peform in spec op missions being significantly larger than a black hawk, does it even have  a door gunner?
 
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Arty Farty       1/13/2011 12:00:09 AM

Ahh I'm just wondering as there was that whole leaked German army report. However I wonder how the vehicle would peform in spec op missions being significantly larger than a black hawk, does it even have  a door gunner?
(were you thinking of the AW101 Merlin? Bigger by 50% w/ 3 engines)
 
Its the same size as the blackhawk, but with a larger cabin. Like every other helicopter, it does have door guns. Does it have all the American goodies (refueling probe, cannons, rockets etc) that can be fitted to blackhawks? Too early to say.

You have to remember that the Tiger was already chosen when MRH-90 selection came about. The Eurocopter on paper was almost unbeatable. 

 
 
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Arty Farty       1/13/2011 12:02:54 AM
 
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Aussie POG       1/17/2011 10:38:53 PM
My Understanding of the German report is that these were all relativly minor issues.
 
Floor and seats can easily be re-enginerred and addresses as I believe they have/are/will be. When you start talking Structual or engine issues it gets serious.
 
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gf0012-aust       1/18/2011 3:26:38 AM


You have to remember that the Tiger was already chosen when MRH-90 selection came about. The Eurocopter on paper was almost unbeatable. 

 

as it turns out, based on unsupported claims which are biting...
 
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Arty Farty       2/11/2011 1:29:31 AM
MRH-90 better suited to an amphibious assault lift. 


In short, 
6 x UH-60M = 66
6 x MRH-90 = 120; can also transport ATVs for heavy infantry weapons 
 
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Kirkzzy       2/11/2011 8:32:34 AM

MRH-90 better suited to an amphibious assault lift. 




http://www.australiandefence.com.au/C5524BA0-F806-11DD-8DFE0050568C22C9">http://www.australiandefence.com.au/C5524BA0-F806-11DD-8DFE0050568C22C9</b></a></div>;" target="_blank">link



In short, 

6 x UH-60M = 66

6 x MRH-90 = 120; can also transport ATVs for heavy infantry weapons 

Ahh nice find! I was just wondering as they have been going through so many problems and the Black Hawk is probably the most battle hardened heli in the world.

Looking at the link and the reasoning, do you think one of the reasons the Tiger was chosen over the Apache was because the Apache wasn't marinised? 
 
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Aussie Diggermark 2       3/7/2011 8:39:01 AM

I am no expert on the subject, but from a layman's point of view it was fairly obvious it was a better choice than the Blackhawk, having much greater carrying capacity plus the rear ramp.  Plus it was more desirable because the Europeans were prepared to allow us to assemble them in Australia, something the Yanks seem reluctant to agree with.   Range etc I am not sure of, but there are plenty of people more knowledgeable than me who can reply on those issues.



We bought the MRH-90 because we got hosed completely and suckered by the lure of large domestic content. In reality thay "domestic content" is assembly and painting of NDK's and this apparently justifies buying a helo that doesn't meet Army's needs and there is a fair chance it never will, no matter what fixes/upgrades the company makes, nor how much more they hose us for, in getting these upgrades. 
 
I admit it looks very nice ferrying Generals from one hardstand to another, but out in the weeds, where AAAvn are using it and where the majority of tactical aviation occurs, it is confirmed as a POS...
 
The rear ramp is a joke and cannot take the weight of the troops, let alone vehicles it is meant to carry. 
 
The floor is another joke and cannot support more than 12 troops in patrol heavy configuration with packs. So the aircraft may well have a larger cabin, but it can only use it to carry air...
 
The machine gun mounts are a complete fiasco. 
 
The ground clearance is abysmal and so on and so on. The operators loathe it. Army never wanted it, the manufacturer continues to struggle with it, but it looks as if we are stuck with it...
 

 
 
 

 
 
 

 
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Aussie Diggermark 2       3/7/2011 9:50:54 AM




MRH-90 better suited to an amphibious assault lift. 










http://www.australiandefence.com.au/C5524BA0-F806-11DD-8DFE0050568C22C9"> . au="" c5524ba0-f806-11dd-8dfe0050568c22c9<="" b><="" a><="" div>="" target="_blank">link target="_blank">link









In short, 



6 x UH-60M = 66



6 x MRH-90 = 120; can also transport ATVs for heavy infantry weapons 





Ahh nice find! I was just wondering as they have been going through so many problems and the Black Hawk is probably the most battle hardened heli in the world.




Looking at the link and the reasoning, do you think one of the reasons the Tiger was chosen over the Apache was because the Apache wasn't marinised? 


British Apaches work just fine off HMS Ocean...
 
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