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Subject: SEALS vs. USMC FORCE RECON
colts    4/17/2006 3:42:16 AM
I really want to join the military although I am not sure which brance I want to go to. I want to go behind enemy lines and get "down and dirty" so to speak. I want the most action I can get, and not just recon, I want to shoot, fight, I REALLY want combat. I want HALO jumps, scuba training, I want it all. Which branch would be the best for me. I want the hardest training, best training i can get. P.S. I also heard that navy boot camp and army boot camp is a bunch of bull and for in pussies and do not want to be a part of that. Is the CORE still as bad ass as always?
 
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Horsesoldier    RE:SEALS vs. USMC FORCE RECON   4/17/2006 12:00:32 PM
Standard boilerplate sort of response to this sort of question . . . Issue 1: Here's the deal -- if you really want to be a shooter, you need to look at the big picture and the odds. The majority of guys who show up for BUD/S fail the course one way or another. Likewise, the majority of guys who show up for SF selection, Pararescue indoc, Ranger RIP, etc., fail. Not to discourage you from aiming for getting into an elite unit, but the odds are such that they beg the question of what your fall back Plan B is going to be in the event you don't pass the selection process or make it through the training. If you want to be a SEAL and don't make it through BUD/S, the powers that be *might* offer you a shot at Special Boat stuff, but the odds are that you're going to be back on some ship chipping paint and mopping floors for the next three or four years of your life. Go USMC trying to get into Force Recon and, even if things don't pan out, you can still be an infantry guy or other combat arms guy doing a shooter sort of job, getting quality training and doing a job I personally find more appealing than scraping paint. Same deal with looking to go directly into the Rangers or SF in the army -- fail out and you're still usually an airborne infantryman. The USAF is sort of like the Navy -- fail out of PJ or CCT pipelines and you're going to a long way from being a shooter in the vast majority of cases. But you'll live better, in my opinion, than in the Navy (others may feel differently about that). Issue 2: Getting the whole range of schools and training. Different SOF units have different schools required and optional. If you want HALO and Scuba SEALs, USAF Special Tactics, and Force Recon would guarantee those, I think (not sure if HALO is a FR requirement or option). In other SOF units you might have the opportunity to get them . . . but they're just some way to get to work anyway, really, even if they make for a cool butterfly collection on the front of your uniform. Once you get into the SOF community, people mostly don't care about your butterfly collection and more about your actual skill and competence when push comes to shove, which is harder to quantify and which has very little to do with the badges on your uniform. Issue 3: Basic training being easy/hard. Why do you care? Really. If you've got the drive and discipline to be in a SOF unit, you're probably not going to gain much of anything from having some guy doing his whole theatrical hysterics routine yelling at you to get you up that hill, over that obstacle, knock out an extra five pushups or whatever.
 
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Lawman    RE:SEALS vs. USMC FORCE RECON   4/17/2006 12:16:45 PM
Basic response: as Horsesoldier says, go for either Army or Corps, since you will get combat nowadays anyway. If you join the Army, the chances of not getting sent to either 'Stan or Iraq are slim, and if you are in 10th, 82nd or 101st, then you will be seeing almost spec ops type combat anyway (in the current wars, there is less concept of frontlines). One thing to be careful of is this, if you go in with the attitude of 'all I want is to go behind enemy lines and shoot', you will probably not get into elite units. As horse says, discipline is as important as drive!
 
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GOP    RE:SEALS vs. USMC FORCE RECON   4/17/2006 12:23:52 PM
Horsesoldier is right on. I want to be a SEAL, but I have the confidence that I will make it or die trying...and if I get injured I will probably go back to the fleet for 2 years and come back to BUD/S again. To go through either BRC or BUD/S (or any other SOCOM training course) is extremely difficult. You have to >KNOW< what you want to do. This means doing some research for yourself, getting prepared, and having the courage to go for your dream when the people around you think you are stupid. Don't listen to us, find out what is best for you
 
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Lawman    RE:SEALS vs. USMC FORCE RECON   4/17/2006 12:44:50 PM
GOP is right, it is all about knowing your capabilities - I know I would wash out of basic boot camp, heck, I would probably wash out of Coast Guard training! (No offence meant to any CG guys)
 
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GOP    RE:SEALS vs. USMC FORCE RECON - Some advice   4/17/2006 1:00:49 PM
Here is some advice/links for preparing for BRC or BUD/S... Prepare for a Triathlon! The importance of this cannot be overlooked. At BUD/S or BRC, being able to swim and run is extremely important. If you prepare for a Triathlon, then you will be able to train for 5-6 days a week without any overuse injuries, and your cardio will be better overall because of your crosstraining (adding in the cycling). Here is a great book on Triathlon basics... http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0736054448/sr=8-4/qid=1145292660/ref=pd_bbs_4/104-1070030-1671145?%5Fencoding=UTF8 Do the BUD/S Warning Order (except replace the Pullups...which I will talk about a little later in my post). I started at 42 pushups and 56 situps...now, after just finishing stage 1 of the program, I can do 78 pushups and 87 situps in 2 minutes. Here is the link: http://www.navyseals.com/dropzone/warning.html This is the best program for pullups, I started out a 7 reps and now am at 13 in 5 weeks: http://www.usmcinfo.com/usmc_pullup.htm The last thing I will add is for you to do massive amounts of flutterkicks. I would do 1,000 every other day.
 
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longrifle    RE:SEALS vs. USMC FORCE RECON   4/17/2006 8:38:10 PM
If you insist on going Navy at least consider becoming a hospital corpsman (Navy "medic"). In Army Special Forces qualified medics are always in short supply, and if the team deploys "downrange" an SF medic will be shooting as much as the weapons specialist. A hospital corpsman can be a SEAL, serve with Force Recon (fully qualified), serve with a Marine rifle company, work in a base hospital, or work on a ship. In the event that you get hurt in the selection/schooling process, walking with a Marine rifle company, or working in the hospital at someplace like, oh, say, Pearl Harbor, is probably going to look a lot better than being stuck in the bowels of an aircraft carrier as a machinist mate.
 
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GOP    RE:SEALS vs. USMC FORCE RECON   4/17/2006 9:07:14 PM
>>In the event that you get hurt in the selection/schooling process, walking with a Marine rifle company, or working in the hospital at someplace like, oh, say, Pearl Harbor, is probably going to look a lot better than being stuck in the bowels of an aircraft carrier as a machinist mate.<< I will either go to HM or Intel A-School, I don't know anyone who would purposefully go in as a machinist mate or something along those lines.
 
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longrifle    RE:SEALS vs. USMC FORCE RECON   4/17/2006 9:41:26 PM
HM???
 
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GOP    RE:SEALS vs. USMC FORCE RECON   4/18/2006 12:32:17 AM
In the SEAL world, HM is the Medical Technichian/Medic rate for A-school.
 
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Tiber1    RE:SEALS vs. USMC FORCE RECON   4/18/2006 6:00:24 PM
"I will either go to HM or Intel A-School, I don't know anyone who would purposefully go in as a machinist mate or something along those lines. " Usually in among the fine print of your contract is a statement that the miltary can change your MoS around to suit their needs. If you fail to qualify for something, they love to pull this one out. A lot of the time what happens is that they will place you in what ever MoS needs the most bodies that month/week/quarter.
 
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