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Subject: War Crimes: Still waiting for a good reason why we went to war with Iraqi people
perfectgeneral    9/17/2006 11:37:29 AM
Is the offical line now that they 'thought' there were weapons of mass destruction poised to destroy us, but Saddam was an evil tyrant so it was okay anyway? That might excuse assasination on some level (certainly not a legal one), but how about all those iraqi civilians that have been killed. I know that the US can't even avoid killing allies, so a few accidents were bound to happen, but the killing of civilians has been pretty indescriminate. Possible combatants have been targetted and killed without trial in a far from surgical manner. I'm sure there are some knee jerk patriots on here that will tell me that it was unavoidable or that these things happen in war, but I'm sure that the burden of proof is still on the US and UK governments. Our occupation of Iraq is illegal (the UN resolutions cannot apply). Use of Iraqi oil assets is theft (the rebuilding contracts are not ours to allocate). While things like this call go on in our name (after the largest public demonstration against a government policy ever in the UK) this isn't a healthy democracy. I don't approve of 11/9 or 7/7, far from it. I just don't think that there is a logical link between them and waging war on Iraq. Afganistan maybe. Harbouring terrorist organisations is something that the US knows all about. Ask Nicaragua. I know that I will get a lot of flak for these views, but I am fed up with the stagnation on the UK forum and wanted to have a real debate about a real issue. please don't think for a minute that I don't respect anyones sacrifice or that I dismiss the cost in human life that all 'sides' have suffered in recent years. This is about the legalities and the justifications. If they aren't important anymore then democracy has taken on a new meaning.
 
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Vapid       9/17/2006 12:31:51 PM
but how about all those iraqi civilians that have been killed.
 
Pretty carte blanche statement don't you think?  Seems you are already disposed to putting the blame on the U.S. for "all those Iraqi civilians that have been killed"; so what is the use in having a discussion over it?
 
Vapid
   
 
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perfectgeneral       9/17/2006 1:10:43 PM

but how about all those iraqi civilians that have been killed.
 

Pretty carte blanche statement don't you think?  Seems you are already disposed to putting the blame on the U.S. for "all those Iraqi civilians that have been killed"; so what is the use in having a discussion over it?


Well you clearly don't agree that the US/UK invasion of Iraq has caused the death of Iraqi civilians (and Iraqi conscripts), you see those deaths as unpreventable or you see them as being the responsability of some other party. Surely if there is room for more than one view on a matter there is room for debate?

 
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The Lizard King    Why PG?   9/19/2006 12:33:50 PM

Some tinfoil heads think American and British ruling circles have been engaged in a policy of military imperialism for several centuries.
 
 
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Pseudonym       9/19/2006 12:40:53 PM
Well as was said again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, etc....

The plan was to bring effective government to the Middle East, ie democracy, so that the governments there would do a novel thing, HUNT TERRORISTS INSTEAD OF SUPPORT THEM.

All the other reasons are simply why Bush chose Iraq over the countries as his starting point for democracy in the middle east.

But hey, who cares, huh?

We shouldn't have given them a way to end the ENDLESS CYCLE of violence they have been stuck on for the last thousand or so years, we should have just sat back and watched as a MILLION TIMES the number who died in this war died without ever having a hope of ending the cycle.

"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."

--attributed to Edmund Burke
 
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FJV       9/20/2006 2:01:59 PM
Saddam offended Islam and the West was pissed off about it.




 
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