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Subject: One man changed the course of European and World history....
DragonReborn    5/31/2007 7:48:04 AM
Here is my argument; King Edward VII (at the time Albert Edward Prince of Wales) was single handily responsible for the change of Britain’s shift in European Alliances from that of Germany to France at the end of the 19th Century. This shift was to have dramatic implications in the 20th Century with the UK siding with France against Germany in the World Wars. The move toward alliance with France was NOT made by British Government policy or (at first) due to changing public attitudes but because ONE British Prince, who would later become King, had spent many wild summers enjoying the decadent Parisian party scene and so become an ardent Francophile and creator of The Entente Cordial. In March 1881 at the Château de Breteuil, Albert Edward, Prince of Wales, met with the French statesman Léon Gambetta to suggest The Entente Cordiale, marking a significant turn around in British attitudes to France, and the end of centuries of intermittent conflict between the two nations. As King Edward VII, Edward further promoted this topic, which gained much public support and so in April 1904 the Entente Cordiale was signed. This agreement was to form the basis of the Alliance between Great Britain and France in WW1 and WW2. Traditionally Britain had strong sympathies with Germany, through Royal family bonds (shared blood lines – Prince Albert and Kaiser William were Cousins) and previous military alliances (e.g. American Revolution, Napoleonic Wars). Without King Albert’s love affair with Parisian Culture, and his own determination to bring Britain and France closer together, Britain would have never moved towards alliance with France and would have stayed more disposed to becoming allied with Germany. A UK- German Alliance in the beginning of the 20th Century would have resulted in a totally different Europe and World history. Discuss…
 
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french stratege       5/31/2007 8:14:49 AM
I don't think that King Edward VII was the only factor.
France and UK collaborated in Crimean war years before.And vs Mexico after.
Britain shifted its alliance because Germany was becoming the stronguest power of continent above France and Russia threatened its asian colonies.
While France was sharing democratic values of UK and was the single foreign power outside USA in this case.
There were the main drivers.
The French British alliance became an implicit allliance after excess of French revolutions ended with Waterloo, France turned moderate and France was broken as the dominant military power and were not willing to challenge the British anymore in Europe and outside Europe.It turned to an explicit alliance with the rise of Germany, Russia then Japan.
 
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JIMF       5/31/2007 3:10:54 PM
Edward certainly loved France.  On his first visit with his parents to France he supposedly asked Louis Napoleon if he could stay with him.  I guess the relatively avuncular head of the second republic seemed a more pleasant alternative than his strict and humorless father.  His visit to the French capital as King began with the people cheering for the Boers, and ended with them cheering for the King.  Quite an accomplishment, but as FS points out historical forces had more to do with the raprochment than the charm of Francophilic King. 
 
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AdvanceAustralia       6/2/2007 3:12:49 PM

Here is my argument;

King Edward VII (at the time Albert Edward Prince of Wales) was single handily responsible for the change of Britain’s shift in European Alliances from that of Germany to France at the end of the 19th Century.

This shift was to have dramatic implications in the 20th Century with the UK siding with France against Germany in the World Wars.

The move toward alliance with France was NOT made by British Government policy or (at first) due to changing public attitudes but because ONE British Prince, who would later become King, had spent many wild summers enjoying the decadent Parisian party scene and so become an ardent Francophile and creator of The Entente Cordial.

In March 1881 at the Château de Breteuil, Albert Edward, Prince of Wales, met with the French statesman Léon Gambetta to suggest The Entente Cordiale, marking a significant turn around in British attitudes to France, and the end of centuries of intermittent conflict between the two nations.

As King Edward VII, Edward further promoted this topic, which gained much public support and so in April 1904 the Entente Cordiale was signed. This agreement was to form the basis of the Alliance between Great Britain and France in WW1 and WW2.

Traditionally Britain had strong sympathies with Germany, through Royal family bonds (shared blood lines – Prince Albert and Kaiser William were Cousins) and previous military alliances (e.g. American Revolution, Napoleonic Wars).

Without King Albert’s love affair with Parisian Culture, and his own determination to bring Britain and France closer together, Britain would have never moved towards alliance with France and would have stayed more disposed to becoming allied with Germany.

A UK- German Alliance in the beginning of the 20th Century would have resulted in a totally different Europe and World history.

Discuss…
An interesting topic and an interesting idea. What influence on the Prince of Wales partying in Paris had I can't say.

What I do know is that Britain's foreign policy in respect of Europe has been, for several centuries, to prevent a single European land power from dominating the continent. Whether it be Phillip's Spain, Louis' France, Napoleonic France, Willhelmian Germany, Hitlerian Germany or Soviet Russia.

At the time that the abovementioned Prince of Wales was partying in Paris, Germany was rapidly becoming the most industrialised, and militarised, nation on the continent. To give him the benefit of the doubt, I daresay the Prince had the foresight that Neville Chamberlain later lacked and came to the conclusion that Britain needed to develop a continental-based counter to Germany's rise.

Whether by partying or good judgement, the world is better place than it might have been.

Three Cheers for King Edward VII.

 
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DragonReborn       6/3/2007 3:55:33 PM

I guess I've always been fascinated with the idea of what would have happend in the 20th Century if instead of a Anglo-French "Entene Cordial" there had been a Anglo-German "Abkommen herzlich".

 

I accept that towards the end of the 19th Century, with the union and rapid expansion of Germany both economically and militarily, Great Britain wants to contain Germany. As it has always tried to do to any of the previous dominant European powers before.

 

However surley an Alliance with France, Britain’s ancient adversary, was not the only route? It is true that we had allied in the Crimea but that had hardly been a success.

 

At the same time Britain was trying to check Russian Power in the Middle East and Asia, and this was done through the Anglo-Russian Entente. Could Great Britain not have sought to confirm spheres of influence with Germany instead of seeking to encircle her?

 

Is it possible that Charles VII simply provided the British Policy makers of the time with the most expedient and popular route to containing the German growth, one that would ultimately lead to a bipolarisation of the European map and ultimately to World War I.

 

If Britain had sought to contain Germany through recognised Spheres of influence backed up by military pacts could we have seen a First World War with Britain fighting with Germany against France and Russia? Would we have seen a World War at all?

 

 
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