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Subject: Rules of Engagement
ej0c    9/27/2002 4:29:21 AM
Since there were no messages here,I thought I'dput the question: How many died in the Genocide in Rwanda? Be honest - do you know offhand? In what period of time did most die? Now that "multilateralism" is dead as a US policy, does genocide warrant US action?
 
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Vulture    RE:Rules of Engagement   9/27/2002 10:10:32 AM
"Does Genocide warrant US intervention" is asked Rwanda, tribals killing tribals with neither side seeming to understand there is a larger worldview out there. In other words, if neither side is civilized, then they can all die. Cold but true, never rescue an infant viper becuase sure later he will bite you and knows no better. Sorry Iraq is a special case that literally determines the FUTURE of the Middle East. And no the US is not intervening in Tibet killing brainwashed Maoists. "That's SuperPower not SuperHero"
 
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Jim    RE:Rules of Engagement   1/18/2003 3:52:11 PM
Between 700000 and 950000 people died in three months. That's in a country that counted 10 or 11 million people. In proportion of the population, a similar slaughter in the USA would be about 25 million dead. The Rwandan genocide was characterized by the deliberate and methodical action of the killers. The dead were not the result of combat, but the victims of a carefully planned extermination. Reluctance to put troops on the ground can be understood when the mission is about separating the armed protagonists of a war, neither of wich really wan peace, but it is totally inexcusable to sit and watch while assasination on such a scale is being perpetrated by peasants with machetes whom a properly armed and trained interposition force, even a small one, would have kept in check while the situation cools down. Failure to intervene in Rwanda is certainly the most shameful mistake of both Americans and Europeans in the 90's. We suffered genocide in the second world war and we did nothing when we had the opportunity to stop one. Worse, the French sent troops ostensibly to set up safe havens, but in fact to protect the killers from retribution. Their actions allowed the Interamwhe to flee and regroup in Zaire, with the dire consequences that followed : let's not forget that war in Democratic Republic of Congo is the direct consequence of the regional destabilisation brought by the Rwandan genocide. War in the RDC is estimated to have caused more than 3 million deaths. A handful thousands of light troops flown in right at the beginning could have saved hundred of thousands. Forest fires must be put out before they are uncontrollable. It seems that the lesson is slowly getting into people's head. Let's keep in mind the cost of that lesson. Jean-Marc L.
 
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tamtam    RE:Rules of Engagement   11/20/2003 7:52:56 PM
The latest number that I have heard is 800,000. Here is a link to an article about the General in charge of the UN operation on the ground (a great man that I have had the pleasure of meeting). He has now written a book about the genocide called "Shake hands with the Devil" by LGen Romeo Dallaire. He is credited with saving 30,000 with the small force he had. He also does numerous speaking engagements on the subject. http://uk.news.yahoo.com/031114/325/edxca.html
 
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StymiestxBlitz    RE:Rules of Engagement   1/24/2004 8:38:45 PM
All the UNMHO was asking for was 4,000 more troops. SOme armored vehicles ammo etc. Nobody would commit. The onbly western countries that commited anything were beligum and Canada(Canada was already deprived from other commitments) Belgium pulled out when ten of their soldiers got killed by the presidential guard. This shows the lack of statesmenship, and morals in our government of today. It is truely a tragedy that the lives of 10 soldiers was worth more then 800,000 thousand rwandan civilians. The americans idea of help was setting up relief camps which harboured interwahame, and the perpatrators of the genocide. The reason why nobody cares about rwanda and all the other hellish places on this planet is because they have no strategic importance to us and because most of the spineless b****** out their are to concerned looking after numero uno. The fact is that until we can achieve a true sense of stability in places like africa, the middle east, south america etc the human race will never reach it's full potential and we will slip further into anarchy. If you would like to contest with me on some of these issues don't bother I am very well read in the rwandan genocide and know everything about it. I have also met the former military head of UNAMIR Lt. Gen. Romeo Dallaire in person and had the distinct honor of hearing him speak his mind on this subject. Also I would like to make a reply to vulture comment on this issue. Your ignorance on the issue of genocide is very disturbing and you obviously have no idea what went on in rwanda.
 
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StymiestxBlitz    RE:Rules of Engagement   1/24/2004 8:40:08 PM
yes tamtam shake hands with the devil is a very good book and it made me realize just how sad we are as a race, and just how low and egotisitc people are.
 
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delete    RE:Rules of Engagement   2/20/2004 9:29:39 PM
Stymie, glad to meet somebody who knows their stuff re Rwanda. Could you comment on the claim that the USA intervened in the UN Security Council to prevent the UN from taking action in 1994? Also, in 1998 the area was headed for a catastrophy of the likes barely seen throughout history, and only the intervention by the French Foreign Legion prevented this.
 
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NewGuy    RE:Rules of Engagement   2/20/2004 9:59:22 PM
"If you would like to contest with me on some of these issues don't bother I am very well read in the rwandan genocide and know everything about it. " It strikes me that anyone who claims to know "everything" about a particular subject matter tends to have a swollen-ego problem, and discussion with them on said subject matter is simply pointless because of this. NewGuy
 
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StymiestxBlitz    RE:Rules of Engagement   9/4/2004 8:07:50 PM
I admit that was a harsh statement but it was just my reaction to somebody who acts like a complete idiot when it comes to these things.
 
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StymiestxBlitz    RE:Rules of Engagement   9/4/2004 8:20:26 PM
"Rwanda, tribals killing tribals with neither side seeming to understand there is a larger worldview out there. In other words, if neither side is civilized, then they can all die. Cold but true, never rescue an infant viper becuase sure later he will bite you and knows no better." Do you think that neither side is civilized that is the most obsurd statement I have ever heard. Most of the men who perpetuated the Rwandan Genocide were men educated in the West and people who we would deem civilized so we are the creators of these people. We breed evil. Rwanda was hijacked by a radical faction of hutus bent on destroying the Tutsis once and for all.
 
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Vulture       4/18/2007 4:59:47 PM
Was googling for another comment and came across this asinine self hatred repsonse by stymie
..,.
Do you think that neither side is civilized that is the most obsurd statement I have ever heard. Most of the men who perpetuated the Rwandan Genocide were men educated in the West and people who we would deem civilized so we are the creators of these people. We breed evil. Rwanda was hijacked by a radical faction of hutus bent on destroying the Tutsis once and for all.
Just because some one comes to the west for education does not mean we are responsible for the evil that they do.  it does not mena they stay civlised either. If you believe otherwise please kill yourself now, for surely that will end your own evil contribution.

Next as for the US must intervene in genocide,  yeah well Darfur is stilla CF, and we have not been able to get the UN to do right now for how many years?
 
Of course I still stand by my statement of uncvilized tribals killing each other.  If a culture can't contribute useful knowledge to the furtherment of mankind, I will not cry of it's demise.

 
 
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