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Subject: F-35 vs SU30 vs Rafale---F-22 vs SU30 vs Rafale
Herc the Merc    4/19/2005 3:28:12 PM
Assume electronics & missiles capabilities are the same-loadouts per plane specs though. 1 on 1 who would win, how many times in 10 engagements. Also Will a 2 to 1 superority give advantage to say the SU-30 over the F-series. Until the SU-35 this pretty much will be the balance of airpower.
 
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jhaley    RE:F-35 vs SU30 vs Rafale---F-22 vs SU30 vs Rafale   4/21/2005 11:51:15 AM
The question to answer in this post would be.... If you where a pilot getting reading to fly into combat {a: air to air or b: air to ground}, and you had a F22, F35, Rafale, or SU30 setting on the run way, which one would you choose with your a$% on the line?
 
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jhaley    RE:F-35 vs SU30 vs Rafale---F-22 vs SU30 vs Rafale   4/21/2005 11:59:06 AM
The main weight problem with the f35 is in the marine corp version {harrier} replacement. The design ( airframe is set, major sytems 7 to 8 yrs ago} There is a differance between when design work begins, when its ready for mockup {basic design set} and when all the bugs are worked out.
 
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french stratege    SU30 vs Rafale   4/24/2005 12:48:42 PM
 
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GOP    RE:F-35 vs SU30 vs Rafale---F-22 vs SU30 vs Rafale   4/26/2005 5:22:05 PM
F-35 vs SU30 vs Rafale: The F-35 wins 8 out of 10 times due to better pilot skills and AMRAAM. F-22 vs SU30 vs Rafale: F-22 10/10 times. Give me a break, this is going to be the most dominant fighter in history given the technology gap. The SU-35 will be behind the F series
 
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GOP    RE:F-35 vs SU30 vs Rafale---F-22 vs SU30 vs Rafale - bluewings   4/26/2005 5:28:48 PM
The F-22 is a much better aircraft, from what I have read on the issue. It will be by far the most technologically advanced fighter in the skies, and to say that French weapons is better than American weapons is pointless, no one (not even you) knows who's weapon systems are better. I could be wrong, so please point out my mistakes. I don't know much about fighters and you certainly know more than me
 
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Shaken    RE:F-35 vs SU30 vs Rafale---F-22 vs SU30 vs Rafale   4/27/2005 2:56:07 AM
> (BlueW) > And it is where F-22/35 are vulnerable ~like ANY other aircraft~ because of IRST technology . In > this regard , Rafale is much better equipped than F-22/35 for 3 main reasons : > > - Superior IRST than both F- fighters > - SPECTRA > - IR MICA The F-35 IRST is wildly cool. The high resolution unit is derived from Sniper XL, which AvWeek had a great article on a few months back (sadly, a pay article now). It showed stills readily identifying airliners at ranges of about 100 miles (a larger target, but also at a much longer range). On top of this, the IRST imagery (as well as the imagery from the lower power IR sensors that provide spheric coverage) is piped directly into the pilot's HMD. Some sources suggest that the JSF IRST will be finding its way into Raptor. AwWeek claims Raptor has IR stealth in addition to Radar stealth. The JSF and Raptor both have significantly greater processing power than any other fighter / attack aircraft. Some portion of this is dedicated to tasks like processing signal data from all manner of sources. For example, the Raptor is the first aircraft I've heard of that can use its RWR as a targeting sensor. Meaning, if you point a radar in the Raptor's direction an AMRAAM may be following the return signal. The best I've heard of elsewhere is using RWR to cue other sensors (radar or IRST). Spectre is really hard to talk about here, because there is basically no useful information about it. Stories of it being an active cancellation are rumor only. No official word on this exist. Even if it is an active cancellation system, no one knows how well such technology will work... particularly once in service for a few years and others get a chance to see it and develop counter-counter measures. And what ECM does the Raptor and JSF carry? We know almost nothing about the suite today. It could be an equivilant of what you expect SPECTRA will achieve. Almost impossible to guess at the comparison between these aircraft's. (That is, short of the normal nationalistic "my military-industrial complex can beat up your military-industrial complex" talk. > (BlueW) > And I bet you a beer that MDA , the French manufacturer of Meteor will equipped it with IR too . As far as I know, this is already planned. Clouding this comparison is the continuous slide of Meteor's schedule (almost year-for year) and ramjet power systems being in AMRAAM follow ons. Meteor could be a non-factor. -- Shaken - out --
 
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Aussiegunner1    Rafale stealth - WTF do you know Shooter?    4/27/2005 5:17:33 AM
While I am in no doubt that the F-22 and F-35 are the most advanced fighters from the 4 mentioned here, I am amused that Shooter sees fit to write of the RCS reduction measures that have gone into the Rafale. How the f*ck would anybody here, especially a non-french person, be in a position to say that the Rafale can be detected at long-range by the SU-30's radar? Stop blowing wind out your arse buddy. The only information that you have access to is the same that the rest of us do, ie, that the Rafale has RCS reduction technology in the frontal aspect. In the absence of other information, that makes it dangerous to ALL the other fighters mentioned, but not as dangerous as the F-22 and F-35 with their all round stealth treatment.
 
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Aussiegunner1    An F-22 is to a Rafale is to an SU-30 what an F-15 is to a Viggen is to a Mig 23...   4/27/2005 6:36:38 AM
...that is, the F-15 was clearly the best of the three Cold War warriors. It had the best thrust/weight ratio, the greatest agility, the best avionics, the biggest weapons load, the best view from the pit and the best endurance. However, it couldn't have afforded to take the Viggen for granted, had the latter faced it in combat. The latter had a good aerodynamic performance(with an initial rate of climb equal to the Eagle), a good radar with look down/shoot down, some other good avionics and a BVR missle in the Skyflash that was an improved version of the Eagle's Sparrow. Working within Swedan's Intergrated Air Defence Network and with EW Viggens, the JA-37 was a definate threat to any comer. No doubt that is part of the reason why the US put so much pressure on the Swedes not to export it. The Mig-23 was a step down from the Viggen and was not a much of a threat to the Eagle, unless the pilot of the Eagle was really dumb or got caught unaware, which would virtually never happen as they always operate under AWAC control. The Mig had a lousy view out of the pit, suspect Russian avionics, weapons and aerodynamic engineering and the swing wing was hard to operate well in a dogfight. The only thing it had going for it was that it could accelerate very fast, the best tactic when facing Eagles or for that matter Viggens. We've got a pretty similar situation today, in this scenario. The F-22 is clearly better than the Rafale, but can't take the latter for granted. The Rafale might just manage to sneak up on the Raptor using frontal aspect stealth and onboard ECM and with offboard ECM this becomes even more of a risk. As for the Mig-23 though, the SU-30 isn't going to be too much of a threat to the F-22, in the absence of a stupid F-22 pilot. The RCS of the thing is likely to be as big as a barn door, so the F-22 should nail it every time. The same is most likely for the Rafale, though in the absence of AWAC coverage the SU-30 might manage to get a shot from the flank or sides if the Rafale is unaware that it is there, especially if the SU is backed up by offboard EW support.
 
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french stratege    RE:An F-22 is to a Rafale is to an SU-30 what an F-15 is to a Viggen is to a Mig 23...   4/27/2005 2:56:41 PM
This is right Aussiegunner!
 
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gixxxerking    RE:An F-22 is to a Rafale is to an SU-30 what an F-15 is to a Viggen is to a Mig 23...   4/27/2005 3:13:28 PM
Thats odd since the Rafale can be detected in clean configuration beyond AMRAAM range by the APG-63(v)1 radar and much further than that by AWACS. I suppose it could happen if the F-22 was unsupported by AWACS and never used its sensors.
 
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