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Subject: F-22 and F-35: What are the under-wing ordnance limits?
Satorian    9/24/2007 9:56:51 PM
This is something I've been wondering about for a while. Does anybody have some official statements at hand about what can be slung under the F-22's and F-35's wings? To me it seems like there is some potential, odd design conflict, depending on the expected mission profiles and load-outs. The idea that the two 5th gen jets could carry tanks and ordnance under their wings once the door is knocked down, to increase payload and range, often comes up, but are they really engineered towards it? Can anybody point me to some official sources stating the under-wing load that is to be cleared for the F-22 and the F-35 respectively?
 
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displacedjim       9/24/2007 10:20:08 PM

This is something I've been wondering about for a while. Does anybody have some official statements at hand about what can be slung under the F-22's and F-35's wings?

To me it seems like there is some potential, odd design conflict, depending on the expected mission profiles and load-outs.

The idea that the two 5th gen jets could carry tanks and ordnance under their wings once the door is knocked down, to increase payload and range, often comes up, but are they really engineered towards it?

Can anybody point me to some official sources stating the under-wing load that is to be cleared for the F-22 and the F-35 respectively?

Past threads have shown diagrams with load limits indicated.  I know you're asking for documentation, but if you're willing to accept my word, I assert that the innermost station on each wing for both aircraft is rated to 5000lbs.  I further assert that the next station on the F-35 is rated for at least 2500lbs, while in the case of the F-22 (somewhat surprisingly, as opposed to it being the F-35) the second station is actually also rated for 5000lbs.  The stations outboard of those two on each wing are basically rated high enough to carry one or two AAMs only.
 
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Nichevo       9/24/2007 10:32:37 PM

I don't recall those diags but of course your word is good for me.  So you rate the F-35 for 15K external carriage plus (some) AAMs, and F-22 for 20K ext + AAMs?  Wow.  I wonder if they handle at all acceptably under such loads or can even fly like that.  And I thought the Beagle and Phantom were heavy hitters...

It makes sense for F-22 to be rated at higher weights as it is bigger and more powerful, never mind what its mission is.  After all, F-15E beat out F-16XL for the strike fighter mission.   I guess bigger has its advantages.

How many AAM stations outboard of the 2 large ones?  Is there a ventral station?  And which of these are wet? I guess ferry range is not much of a concern...hope buddy fueling was thought of.
 
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gf0012-aust       9/24/2007 11:26:15 PM
 
I'd be taking DJ's word for it.  All the useful and official TO's relating to the F-22 were pulled from the net about 2 years ago.
 
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B.Smitty       9/25/2007 12:07:48 AM
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/images/f-22-weaps-mg27.gif">
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/aircraft/images/f-22-weapons-2006.gif">
(from globalsecurity.org)

Not sure these configurations have all been cleared for the F-22, but I have seen pics of drop tests with 4 tanks.

Additional configurations are undoubtedly just awaiting integration funding.


 
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Satorian       9/25/2007 6:23:26 PM
Thanks for the replies.

Are there any pictures of the F-22 having flown with external stores? I haven't seen them being used anywhere or haven't heard anything about the integration road map, but if they didn't intend to use them, it would seem odd to strengthen the wings for about twice the load.

 
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DarthAmerica       9/25/2007 6:45:25 PM

Thanks for the replies.

Are there any pictures of the F-22 having flown with external stores? I haven't seen them being used anywhere or haven't heard anything about the integration road map, but if they didn't intend to use them, it would seem odd to strengthen the wings for about twice the load.

 
Look...
 
h*tp://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/f-22-raptor-20.jpg
h*tp://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/images/AIR_F-22A_Fuel_Tanks_Landing_lg.jpg
 
I've read a lot of hints that suggest there is more to the F-22 external carrying capability that is being admitted in public officially. 5000 lbs suggest much more than just ordinance IMHO.
 
-DA
 
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Phaid       9/25/2007 6:53:04 PM
Well, a full 600 gallon fuel tank weighs in at just under 5000 lbs, so the published spec makes sense.

But then there has been work on stealthy pods for JDAM and SDB, like this wind tunnel model:

http://www.ausairpower.net/000-FA-22A-10.jpg">

Right now, though, integration work is focusing on things in the fuselage bays, like AIM-120D and the recent SDB test drops (video).

 
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dwightlooi       9/25/2007 7:09:08 PM
The F-35's external stations are:-
Inboard: 2 x 5,000 lbs
Mid-wing: 2 x 2,500 lbs
Outboard: 2 x 350 lbs

The F-35's internal stations are:-
2 x 2,500 lbs
2 x 350 lbs

F-35 internal fuel storage is:-
(A) 8.4 tons
(B) 6.2 tons
(C) 9 tons

The F-22's are:-
Inboard: 2 x 5,000 lbs
Outboard: 2 x 5,000 lbs

The F-22's internal stations are:-
6 x 350 lbs or 2 x 1,000 lbs + 2 x 350 lbs
2 x 250 lbs

F-22 internal fuel capacity is:-
(A) 9.5~10.5 tons (unconfirmed)

 
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DarthAmerica       9/25/2007 7:25:34 PM
A 5000lbs weapons station leaves a lot of options open. What about something similar in concept to Minion or Top Cover?
 
 
-DA
 
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EW3       9/25/2007 7:32:22 PM
Have always thought the external stores of these jets have been underrated in sense of their value.
A single F-35 could carry 4 harpoons while traveling on the deck, then climb to altitude for another mission.  The climb is almost the ideal stealth approach.  Then it can unload it's internal weapons.  A one aircraft approach to SEAD 
The F-22 offers a more difficult question.  What to put on those 2 5Klb pylons?  Would guess the Chair Force already has an idea, and the bad guys won't like it. 
 
 
 
 
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