Then it didnt work as it did bleed speed if requred to perform out of the virtical

Your source for this? 

See the chart in the link several posts above. It shows that only two of the types tested had a higher SET. (Specific Excess Thrust!) It also had a higher aspect ratio wing and bled speed more slowly because of it.

Only in the Virtical, in a turn or roll the size, weight and design led to loss of speed,

IIRC, the early Spit had a rate of roll of 27 degrees per second at 300 MPH? But I could be wrong, so why don't you post links to better rates of roll at speeds over 300 MPH! Even your Vaunted Mk-XIV was a dog at Rate of Roll!

  But because the P-38 had more excess power/drag than the Mk-IX Spitfire,

No it didnt thats just made up by you

 

 and a higher aspect ratio wing there was absolutely nothing the Spit could do to stay alive in combat Vs a correctly flown P-38L! Nothing!

Balls, a MKIX would have a P38H/J for breakfast and would easy hold its own against a P38L, A MKXIV would easy overcome a P38L

 

The P-38 could out roll all but the Fw-190 and Me-163 at speeds above 250 MPH

Not according to official tests

Then post links to those tests! 

and the power boosted L mods could out roll them by 50% or more even at much faster speeds,

no this is just pure rubbish, the earlier P38 were all out turned We are not talking about turning! we are talking about the power to rotate the plane about the longitudinal axis! And like all planes ever built, it had better and worse parts of the envelope. In the good parts, it easily out flies any Spitfire ever made.

only in your dreams, if they did why did the USAAF use Spitfire as P38 escorts?

Because the P-38 could carry two 2000 pound bombs and twelve 5" HVARs, with 2000 rounds of .50 and 150 rounds of 20 MM. 

which is why they went to power boosted controls.
Cruising speeds higher than the TOP SPEEDS of early Spitfires and Me-109s. And it could do that for almost three hours.

only late models had such indurance earlier models (pre 44) wer not much better then Spitfires (<50 miles)

On 9 August 1942, two P-38Es of the 343rd Fighter Group, 11th Air Force, at the end of a 1,000 mi (1,609 km) long-range patrol, happened upon a pair of Japanese Kawanishi H6K "Mavis" flying boats and destroyed them,^[30] making them the first Japanese aircraft to be shot down by Lightnings. Show me a Spit with a 1000 mile range on 9 August of 1942!

Then read the entire book!

That is the kind of monumental pasting that defies any attempt at obfuscation, like your "missions vary" attempt above!

 

WOW shooter finially admits that his aim is to obfuscate when presented with facts that dispute his view

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obfuscation

 

 

and I love the way he claims I pasted him

Your source for this?

 

 

Only in the Virtical, in a turn or roll the size, weight and design led to loss of speed,

IIRC, the early Spit had a rate of roll of 27 degrees per second at 300 MPH? But I could be wrong,

 

 

 so why don't you post links to better rates of roll at speeds over 300 MPH! Even your Vaunted Mk-XIV was a dog at Rate of Roll!

 

 

and a higher aspect ratio wing there was absolutely nothing the Spit could do to stay alive in combat Vs a correctly flown P-38L! Nothing!

Balls, a MKIX would have a P38H/J for breakfast and would easy hold its own against a P38L, A MKXIV would easy overcome a P38L

The P-38 could out roll all but the Fw-190 and Me-163 at speeds above 250 MPH

Not according to official tests

Then post links to those tests!

 

and the power boosted L mods could out roll them by 50% or more even at much faster speeds,

no this is just pure rubbish, the earlier P38 were all out turned We are not talking about turning! we are talking about the power to rotate the plane about the longitudinal axis! And like all planes ever built, it had better and worse parts of the envelope. In the good parts, it easily out flies any Spitfire ever made.

only in your dreams, if they did why did the USAAF use Spitfire as P38 escorts?

Because the P-38 could carry two 2000 pound bombs and twelve 5" HVARs, with 2000 rounds of .50 and 150 rounds of 20 MM.

 

 

which is why they went to power boosted controls.
Cruising speeds higher than the TOP SPEEDS of early Spitfires and Me-109s. And it could do that for almost three hours.

only late models had such indurance earlier models (pre 44) wer not much better then Spitfires (<50 miles)

On 9 August 1942, two P-38Es of the 343rd Fighter Group, 11th Air Force, at the end of a 1,000 mi (1,609 km) long-range patrol, happened upon a pair of Japanese Kawanishi H6K "Mavis" flying boats and destroyed them,^[30] making them the first Japanese aircraft to be shot down by Lightnings. Show me a Spit with a 1000 mile range on 9 August of 1942!

 

 

Then read the entire book!

Page 103, 3rd PP, 4th PP, OF FORK TAILED DEVIL...

 

Only in the Virtical, in a turn or roll the size, weight and design led to loss of speed,

IIRC, the early Spit had a rate of roll of 27 degrees per second at 300 MPH? But I could be wrong,

 

Yes you are your own source book dispells that idea

 No, it does not. See page 56, column 2, near the bottom of the page.( Spitfire, the history!)

 so why don't you post links to better rates of roll at speeds over 300 MPH! Even your Vaunted Mk-XIV was a dog at Rate of Roll!

 Total and absolute rubbish, do you think we are stupid?

No, I think you are very crafty! But until you post a link to actual reports of Bascomdown  Spitfire Mk-I-III tests that list the actual rates of both initial and sustained rates of roll, I WILL think you are ignorant.

Balls, a MKIX would have a P38H/J for breakfast and would easy hold its own against a P38L, A MKXIV would easy overcome a P38LJust how is that going to happen? In a head on pass, the Spit dies at over 1,000 M. In the stern chase from cruise, the Spit takes more than twice as long to close the visual gap as the P-38 takes to do the same to the Spitfire Mk-XIV. So if the chance to spot is proportional to the square of the difference in time, The P-38 shoots the Spit down 3/4 ths of the time and the Spit downs the P-38 1/4 of the time. Then there is the oblique attack. The P-38 is much more likely to be seen, but can open EFFECTIVE fire from five times the range as the Spitfire, so the Spit is much less likely to survive. At longer ranges, the Spit sees the -38 coming and turns into the attack, but then it becomes a head on pass! Something the Spit is unlikely to survive!

The P-38 could out roll all but the Fw-190 and Me-163 at speeds above 250 MPH

Not according to official tests Well, yes, according to the tests! Post a link to actual test reports!

Part-II; Then post links to those tests!

 

why? just why should I post sources that I spent time and effort finding and reading to counter post that you make up out of thin air? 

Because you made the claim after those charts were posted on this board that prove me right! The Spit aileron roll reversal argument! Look up those posts! They were very definitive! The only first line plane on the planet that was slower rolling than the early Spitfire at speeds over 250 MPH is the Early Zero! So yes, you have to post the reports because there were posted here before and they prove my claim! Not yours!

Absolute rubbish. Hint: BULLET DROP, one called shooter. You claim to know ballistics, "what is the bullet drop of a fifty caliber bullet in a 200 knot headwind at 1000 meters?"

 

Foolish one, you are so not clever... 

 Total and absolute rubbish, do you think we are stupid?

No, I think you are very crafty! But until you post a link to actual reports of Bascomdown  Spitfire Mk-I-III tests that list the actual rates of both initial and sustained rates of roll, I WILL think you are ignorant.

Balls, a MKIX would have a P38H/J for breakfast and would easy hold its own against a P38L, A MKXIV would easy overcome a P38LJust how is that going to happen? In a head on pass, the Spit dies at over 1,000 M. In the stern chase from cruise, the Spit takes more than twice as long to close the visual gap as the P-38 takes to do the same to the Spitfire Mk-XIV. So if the chance to spot is proportional to the square of the difference in time, The P-38 shoots the Spit down 3/4 ths of the time and the Spit downs the P-38 1/4 of the time. Then there is the oblique attack. The P-38 is much more likely to be seen, but can open EFFECTIVE fire from five times the range as the Spitfire, so the Spit is much less likely to survive. At longer ranges, the Spit sees the -38 coming and turns into the attack, but then it becomes a head on pass! Something the Spit is unlikely to survive!

The P-38 could out roll all but the Fw-190 and Me-163 at speeds above 250 MPH

Not according to official tests Well, yes, according to the tests! Post a link to actual test reports!

Part-II; Then post links to those tests!

 

why? just why should I post sources that I spent time and effort finding and reading to counter post that you make up out of thin air? 

Because you made the claim after those charts were posted on this board that prove me right! The Spit aileron roll reversal argument! Look up those posts! They were very definitive! The only first line plane on the planet that was slower rolling than the early Spitfire at speeds over 250 MPH is the Early Zero! So yes, you have to post the reports because there were posted here before and they prove my claim! Not yours!

Then there is the P-38D from June 1941, WO DTs Range = 975 Miles! P-38F = 700 Miles at 356 MPH, or 1475 Miles W DTs! All With Combat and emergency reserves! P-38G/H = 1,050 Miles at 300 MPH, or 1,950 miles W DTs! P-38J/L = 1,300 Miles WO DTs and 2,260 WITH DTs! Note the huge increase in internal fuel! Also Range with 3,200 pounds of bombs = 725 Miles! That means that the P-38J/L with 3,200 Pounds of bombs can fly farther than ANY Spitfire WO Drop Tanks! So no, the Spit is not even close in Range! All figures from Stuart Wilson's book on WW-II aircraft!

Then read the entire book!

 Total and absolute rubbish, do you think we are stupid?

Balls, a MKIX would have a P38H/J for breakfast and would easy hold its own against a P38L, A MKXIV would easy overcome a P38LJust how is that going to happen? In a head on pass, the Spit dies at over 1,000 M. In the stern chase from cruise, the Spit takes more than twice as long to close the visual gap as the P-38 takes to do the same to the Spitfire Mk-XIV. So if the chance to spot is proportional to the square of the difference in time, The P-38 shoots the Spit down 3/4 ths of the time and the Spit downs the P-38 1/4 of the time. Then there is the oblique attack. The P-38 is much more likely to be seen, but can open EFFECTIVE fire from five times the range as the Spitfire, so the Spit is much less likely to survive. At longer ranges, the Spit sees the -38 coming and turns into the attack, but then it becomes a head on pass! Something the Spit is unlikely to survive!

The P-38 could out roll all but the Fw-190 and Me-163 at speeds above 250 MPH

Not according to official tests Well, yes, according to the tests! Post a link to actual test reports!

    Part-II; Then post links to those tests!
    
    why? just why should I post sources that I spent time and effort finding and reading to counter post that you make up out of thin air? 



Because you made the claim after those charts were posted on this board that prove me right! The Spit aileron roll reversal argument! Look up those posts! They were very definitive! The only first line plane on the planet that was slower rolling than the early Spitfire at speeds over 250 MPH is the Early Zero! So yes, you have to post the reports because they were posted here before and they prove my claim! Not yours!


 

Range	Velocity	Impact	Drop	ToF	Energy	Drift
0	2910	-0.5	0	0	13351	0
100	2852	15.88	2.3	0.11	12824	0.61
200	2795	27.98	8.89	0.21	12316	1.15
300	2740	35.59	19.96	0.32	11836	2.05
400	2685	38.56	35.68	0.43	11366	3.33
500	2631	36.69	56.23	0.54	10913	5
600	2578	29.77	81.83	0.66	10478	7.06
700	2525	17.62	112.67	0.78	10052	9.52
800	2473	0	148.97	0.9	9642	12.4
900	2422	-23.3	190.96	1.02	9248	15.71
1000	2372	-52.53	238.87	1.15	8871	19.47

I knew you would get it completely wrong foolish one. That is why I phrased it the way I did.

 

Second hint. LIFT. 

Range	Velocity	Impact	Drop	ToF	Energy	Drift
0	2910	-0.5	0	0	13351	0
100	2852	15.88	2.3	0.11	12824	0.61
200	2795	27.98	8.89	0.21	12316	1.15
300	2740	35.59	19.96	0.32	11836	2.05
400	2685	38.56	35.68	0.43	11366	3.33
500	2631	36.69	56.23	0.54	10913	5
600	2578	29.77	81.83	0.66	10478	7.06
700	2525	17.62	112.67	0.78	10052	9.52
800	2473	0	148.97	0.9	9642	12.4
900	2422	-23.3	190.96	1.02	9248	15.71
1000	2372	-52.53	238.87	1.15	8871	19.47

Page 103, 3rd PP, 4th PP, OF FORK TAILED DEVIL...
Comic book history that even the author admitted was poorly researched and based mainly on hearsay.

 

Yes you are your own source book dispells that idea

No, it does not. See page 56, column 2, near the bottom of the page.( Spitfire, the history!)

oh yes the Fabric covered MkIs and IIs that were out of service by 41 BEFORE the P38 entered serivce maybe you should pick one that was relavent or compaired the MKi/II against aircraft that were around at the time, if it only had a roll rate of 10 degrees it would still be a good roller if the others at the time only managed 5! but no you pick the worse of the Spits and the best of later war fighters as the comaprison, you are a joke

 

Total and absolute rubbish, do you think we are stupid?

No, I think you are very crafty! But until you post a link to actual reports of Bascomdown  Spitfire Mk-I-III tests that list the actual rates of both initial and sustained rates of roll, I WILL think you are ignorant.

 

firstly Bascomedown is not an actual place it's B oscombe Down two word spelt differently and secondly no roll tests were performed at Boscombe Down (only Farnborough), and Until you post such figures for a MkV or IX or XIV then I will KNOW your ignorant

Balls, a MKIX would have a P38H/J for breakfast and would easy hold its own against a P38L, A MKXIV would easy overcome a P38LJust how is that going to happen? In a head on pass, the Spit dies at over 1,000 M.

In your dreams, you have never provided any proof of your claim about P38 1000yard kills its just your own personnel wet dream

 

 In the stern chase from cruise, the Spit takes more than twice as long to close the visual gap as the P-38 takes to do the same to the Spitfire Mk-XIV.

Nope again this is purely based on your made up numbers and is a joke

 

So if the chance to spot is proportional to the square of the difference in time, The P-38 shoots the Spit down 3/4 ths of the time and the Spit downs the P-38 1/4 of the time.

but this fails to consider that the P38 can be seen and idenified at twice the range as a Spit and is a FAR bigger target so is more likely to be hit and if it is earlier than a L model then any hit is likely to cause loss of engine power or even engine failure

Then there is the oblique attack. The P-38 is much more likely to be seen, but can open EFFECTIVE fire from five times the range as the Spitfire,

only in your dreams only in your dreams, an oblique attack at long range with 1940s gunsights? what a joke are you sure you know anything about aircombat because you seems to have strange ideas about what was possible

 

 so the Spit is much less likely to survive.

pure speculation without support

 

 At longer ranges, the Spit sees the -38 coming and turns into the attack, but then it becomes a head on pass! Something the Spit is unlikely to survive!

 

but the a2a missles on the spit would shoot down the p38 at over 5 miles ---- see how making thing up works if both sides do it

 

Because you made the claim after those charts were posted on this board that prove me right!

 

No charts have ever proved you right, if you think they do YOU post them, I am sick of you demanding me prove youe stupid claims wrong, you consistantly make claims from thin air and then demand that other posters provide documentation for saying you are wrong, with your record it is upto you to support your claims not for us to disprove

 

The Spit aileron roll reversal argument! Look up those posts! They were very definitive! The only first line plane on the planet that was slower rolling than the early Spitfire at speeds over 250 MPH is the Early Zero! So yes, you have to post the reports because there were posted here before and they prove my claim! Not yours!

 

Only for the Fabric covered ailerons that was discontinued BEFORE the P38 even entered service