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Subject: Best All-Around Fighter of World War II
sentinel28a    10/13/2009 3:38:03 PM
Let's try a non-controversial topic, shall we? (Heh heh.) I'll submit the P-51 for consideration. BW and FS, if you come on here and say that the Rafale was the best fighter of WWII, I am going to fly over to France and personally beat you senseless with Obama's ego. (However, feel free to talk about the D.520.)
 
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sentinel28a       10/13/2009 3:39:02 PM
Now why did I know that would double post?  Must be psychic.
 
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Beryoza       10/13/2009 4:44:02 PM
I submit the most successful fighter of all time, the Bf-109. It was the most produced, it had the most kills, it served throughout the war, and was very much loved by its pilots. The top five greatest aces of all time started their career on it, and the top three flew it almost exclusively. Furthermore, it remained highly competitive until the very end (literally, with Erich Hartmann scoring his last kill,  either a Yak-1 or a Yak-9, on the 8th of May 1945).
 
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albywan       10/13/2009 5:00:28 PM
I'll submit the P40 as a contender, based on it's use across all theatres and all operational areas. Sure it isn't the glamour fighter the Mustang or Spitfires were, it was the work horse. And when kitted with a good engine it was a stellar performance platform.
And the looks... espcially with the artistic Shark mouth paint jobs often deployed.
 
And it was on the winning side. 
 
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DropBear       10/13/2009 5:42:49 PM
Best all-round for my money would be the Spitfire.
 
It may have been outclassed in certain variants at times, however, it evolved so often as to negate any shortcomings in the long term. It was a point-defence interceptor, photo-recon, naval mount (ok, so the Seafire was not EXACTLY a Spit), fighter-bomber, target tug etc etc. Was there at the start of the war and was still going strong into the early 1950's after two dozen marks.
 
It may not have had the range, but I'd strap myself into an Mk.XIV over a P-51 anyday. http://www.strategypage.com/CuteSoft_Client/CuteEditor/Images/emlove.gif" align="absMiddle" border="0" alt="" />
 
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Bluewings12       10/13/2009 5:48:45 PM
If we talk about Fighter , the Spit was the real deal . In cannon dogfights (WW2) , it was the best .
The bF-109 did not have the engine and the flight characteristics to compete . Same with the FW-190 (while being an excellent aircraft) .
 
Cheers .
 
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lightningrod       10/13/2009 6:00:25 PM
F4U-4
 
If you look at all the capabilities from Speed, Climbing , diving,  Range , Firepower, Bomb truck, maneuverability, durability, Kill ratio, and oh yeah Carrier capability you will find that while some of the other contenders may be better at one of these they will be inferior to most or all of the rest.  It was Faster than most, More durable than most.  Far more ability to haul ordinance than .  Could out dive and out climb most.  More range than most.  It is not even close.
 
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YelliChink       10/13/2009 6:20:38 PM
No P-47 love? Since the topic is "all-around" not just "air-combat," P-47 certainly wins out the pageant on this category. It can carry more ordinance than P-51 and take much more punishment. The only equivalent to P-47 is F4U, which both survived into Korean War. Where was P-51 and F6F by that time?
 
P-47 WTF
 
http://www.kowabunga.org/images/pictures/military_aviation/p47/p47_firing_rockets.jpg" width="450" height="349" />
 
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ambush       10/13/2009 6:38:13 PM

F4U-4

 

If you look at all the capabilities from Speed, Climbing , diving,  Range , Firepower, Bomb truck, maneuverability, durability, Kill ratio, and oh yeah Carrier capability you will find that while some of the other contenders may be better at one of these they will be inferior to most or all of the rest.  It was Faster than most, More durable than most.  Far more ability to haul ordinance than .  Could out dive and out climb most.  More range than most.  It is not even close.


Agreed.  Air to Air, Air to Ground, carrier ops.

If you had to consolidate WWII fighter, fight-bomber production to one aircraft this would be it.

 Its fighter performance was comparable to the FW-190 as a fighter  and was a great fighter bomber. 


FW-190A5-U8 Vrs F4U-1D and F6F-3
 
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RockyMTNClimber    General comments   10/13/2009 7:22:20 PM
Re: Bf-109, there were really two different evolutions of the -109. The -109 up through the "F" model and the "G" model. The G was a redesign and repower of the same basic concept that could be built upon the same assembly lines as the E's and F's. The G's had a bigger engine, up to 1800hp v. 1150hp in the earlier Bf-109s, but still I would much rather have a FW-190 if I was a Luftwaffe driver in the day. The FW-190 was a match, air to air / plane for plane, for anything in the war the allies flew. The -109, while prolific and competitive, never quite made top dog against the USAAF or RAF types available at any particular time during the war. There is a great deal of data and testimony on this point from US and RAF pilots who flew the FW-190 during and after the war. Those include US test  pilots Bob Hoover and Chuck Yeager as well as celebrated RAF test pilot Eric "Winkle" Brown who said, "..there is not a whisker between the Spitfire MXIV, the FW-190D, and the P-51D." He was speaking of air to air capabiliy at the time. (Google Eric's information to get his resume, have some time set aside when you do...)
 
Yelli, the P-47 never saw action in Korea. The P-51 and the F4U did, extensively. Nor did the P-47 have the Mustang's range. The P-51 could do the Jug's job but the Jug couldn't ever last as long in combat in either Europe or the Pacific as the similar to-date 'Stang.
 
The P-47 was much more complex to build, and more expensive than the Mustang. a P51 retailed at around $50K and a floor room new Jug cost a bit over $80,000.000 (you could almost build 3 Mustangs for the cost of a F4U Corsair!). Cost advantage goes to the P-51 and we all know that quantity has a quality all of it's own.
 
When looking at the best fighter  of the war I look at the two phases of the war. Up to about mid 1943, the P-40 was probably the best all around fighter (there is a thread dedicated to it here on Strategypage somewhere) and after '43 it is very difficult to argue against the P-51 as the best of the lot. I believe the F6F was pretty damned good too and even the F4F Wildcat's airmen fought all comers with out ever loosing the kill ratio war. The Wildcat pilots fought a true battle of attrition against the Japanese in the South Pacific and scored blow for blow against the IJN. Arguably the best pilots in the world at the outbreak of the war while USN and US Marine aviators were a mixed bag of experienced and absolutely green replacements.
 
Tough sledding for the Cactus Air Force but they held the line just like the RAF did in the Battle of Britain.
 
Check Six
 
Rocky
 
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YelliChink    Rocky   10/13/2009 7:33:11 PM

Yelli, the P-47 never saw action in Korea. The P-51 and the F4U did, extensively. Nor did the P-47 have the Mustang's range. The P-51 could do the Jug's job but the Jug couldn't ever last as long in combat in either Europe or the Pacific as the similar to-date 'Stang.

 
Ooops, my bad. Thanks for correction.
 
Nevertheless, would you rather be in a P-51 or a P-47 while doing attack run under enemy AAA?
 
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