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Subject: UK Pilot flight test the Rafale F3
Bluewings12    11/9/2009 1:57:05 PM
By Peter Collins : Chapter 1 , the aircraft : "Most advanced Allied air forces now have operational fleets of fourth-generation fighters (defined by attributes such as being fly-by-wire, highly unstable, highly agile, net-centric, multi-weapon and multi-role assets). These Western types include the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, Dassault Rafale, Eurofighter Typhoon and Saab Gripen NG. The Boeing F-15E and Lockheed Martin F-16 have an older heritage, but their latest upgrades give them similar multi-role mission capabilities. Of the above group, only the Super Hornet and Rafale M are capable of aircraft-carrier operations. As these fourth-generation fighters' weapons, sensor systems and net-centric capabilities mature, the likelihood of export orders for such an operationally proven package becomes much more realistic. On behalf of Flight International, I became the first UK test pilot to evaluate the Rafale in its current F3 production standard, applicable to aircraft for both French air force and French navy frontline squadrons. The "proof-of-concept" Rafale A first flew in 1986 as an aerodynamic study, leading to the programme's formal launch two years later. The slightly smaller single-seat Rafale C01 and two-seat B01 for the French air force and single-seat M01 and M02 prototypes for the navy flew from 1991. The first production-standard Rafale flew in 1998, and entered service with the navy's 12F squadron at Landivisiau in 2004 in the F1 (air-to-air) standard. Deliveries of the air force's B- and C-model aircraft started in 2006 in the F2 standard, dubbed "omnirole" by Dassault. Since 2008, all Rafales have been delivered in the F3 standard, which adds reconnaissance pod integration and MBDA's ASMP-A nuclear weapon capability. All aircraft delivered in earlier production standards will be brought up to the F3 configuration over the next two years. The French forces plan to purchase 294 Rafales: 234 for the air force and 60 for the navy. Their Rafales are set to replace seven legacy fighter types, and will remain as France's principal combat aircraft until at least 2040. To date, about 70 Rafales have been delivered, with a current production rate of 12 a year. Rafale components and airframe sections are built at various Dassault facilities across France and assembled near Bordeaux, but maintained in design and engineering configuration "lockstep" using the virtual reality, Dassault-patented Catia database also used on the company's Falcon 7X business jet. Rafale software upgrades are scheduled to take place every two years, a complete set of new-generation sensors is set for 2012 and a full mid-life upgrade is planned for 2020 SUPERB PERFORMANCE The Rafale was always designed as an aircraft capable of any air-to-ground, reconnaissance or nuclear strike mission, but retaining superb air-to-air performance and capabilities. Air force and navy examples have made three fully operational deployments to Afghanistan since 2005, giving the French forces unparalleled combat and logistical experience. The commitments have also proved the aircraft's net-centric capabilities within the co-ordination required by coalition air forces and the command and control environment when delivering air support services to ground forces. Six Rafale Ms recently carried out a major joint exercise with the US Navy from the deck of the Nimitz-class aircraft carrier the USS Theodore Roosevelt. The air force's B/C fighters have 80% commonality with the navy's Rafale M model, the main differences being the latter's navalised landing gear, arrestor hook and some fuselage longitudinal strengthening. Overall, the M is about 300kg (661lb) heavier than the B, and has 13 hardpoints, against the 14 found on air force examples. Dassault describes the Rafale as omnirole rather than multirole. This is derived from the wide variety of air-to-ground and air-to-air weapons, sensor pods and fuel tank combinations it can carry; the optimisation of aircraft materials and construction; and the full authority digital FBW controlling a highly agile (very aerodynamically unstable) platform. This also gives the aircraft a massive centre of gravity range and allows for a huge combination of different mission stores to be carried, including the asymmetric loading of heavy stores, both laterally and longitudinally. Other attributes include the wide range of smart and discrete sensors developed for the aircraft, and the way that the vast array of received information is "data fused" by a powerful central computer to reduce pilot workload when presented in the head-down, head-level and head-up displays. The Rafale is designed for day or night covert low-level penetration, and can carry a maximum of 9.5t of external ordinance, equal to the much larger F-15E. With a basic empty weight of 10.3t, an internal fuel capacity of 4.7t and a maximum take-off weight of 24.5t, the Rafale can lift 140% of additional lo
 
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Hamilcar    Sentinel answered for me.   11/12/2009 2:02:10 PM
I do not see why I should  have to add to that except that if a French speaker cannot even even read news properly in his own language, then how can he comment about things in English?
 
I am going to enjoy a hamburger.  
 
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One Five Five Echo       11/12/2009 2:44:06 PM
What's funny is people talking about "omnidirectional" jammers vice little MMIC arrays and claiming they are some kind of expert.  Because I guess an expert on ECM wouldn't have heard about Rotman lenses and mini-TWTs in use on U.S. and no doubt other Western ECM systems since the late '70s.  There's more than one way to skin a cat.
 
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french stratege       11/12/2009 2:58:50 PM
Don't confuse directional by sector and pin point accuracy with reduced sidelobe.
Towed jammer are omnidirectional.
It is true that EF18 Growler has a very sophisticated suit for area jamming to help penetration.
But except this case of a dedicated plane, none of US combat aircraft has a ECM suit similar to Rafale and has implemented its concept.
 
Good new for Rafale: we ordered 60 F3 more with AESA this morning so France has ordered 180 Rafale until now.
Still waiting for Brazil, Switzerland, UAE and Kuwait.
 
 
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gf0012-aust       11/12/2009 3:13:40 PM

On a totally unrelated subject, how about driving a petition demanding that SP use a better forum software ?  
its probably the one thing that everyone on here would agree to. :)

on another note, I wasn't having a shot at you.  sometimes speedy responses can lack inflection and appear abrupt and dismissive when they're not.  of course, that doesn't mean that there are a select few who I can be abrupt and dismissive with. :)

 
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gf0012-aust       11/12/2009 3:16:47 PM

Are you real sure about the Rafale F3 being in Afghanistan, BW?  
 
BW made things up again.  Look at the build dates I got from Dassault on the F2 and F3 builds.  He is too keen to lie to defend his position,
no doubt we will now get a variation of his "misunderstanding" of things and another attempt to deflect the conversations and an appeal to play nice.

go figure

 
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gf0012-aust       11/12/2009 3:20:49 PM
Now another question from me--are the Rafale Ms being upgraded to F3s at the same time as the AdA's, or is Dassault concentrating on the AdA's first and then the Aeronavale?

AFAI can tell from the dates I received, all the F2's are upgraded now.  everything from this point on should be a clean build. 

MK,  dassault never got back on the F1 upgrade intent, so can't comment at this point in time.

 
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Hamilcar       11/12/2009 3:25:31 PM

What's funny is people talking about "omnidirectional" jammers vice little MMIC arrays and claiming they are some kind of expert.  Because I guess an expert on ECM wouldn't have heard about Rotman lenses and mini-TWTs in use on U.S. and no doubt other Western ECM systems since the late '70s.  There's more than one way to skin a cat.

Some of us have.
 
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gf0012-aust       11/12/2009 3:30:23 PM
Yes, yes, I agree that getting in a Rafale after flying Harriers or Jaguars has to be a large gap, and explain some of Collins' enthusiasm. I also agree that he may not be as up-to-date on "modern" fighters than current military pilots. That said, given his pedigree, job and likely address book, I'm quite sure he's not completely ignorant at least in the theoretical side of things, and he does have an amount of credibility that the average forum dweller doesn't have (I include myself, obviously, in this category).

I'm certainly not dismissing his competency, but everyone is subject to robust analysis.  In this case, when he makes comparitive claims about near peers etc then he is subject to the same scrutiny as everyone else.  unfort, the references and his background don't line up - so he has let enthusiastic artistic journalism enter the debate about what was a functional flight.  by any stretch of the imagination, anyone can see that he's not in a position to take that position.  at that point he turned into armchair analysis.

the problem is that the enthusiastic will (and have as we have already seen) take it as biblical and empirical commentary because they want to believe the message above conducting dissection of the commentary to test its integrity.

he overstepped and polluted his own credibility when he did that.
 
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One Five Five Echo       11/12/2009 3:40:39 PM



What's funny is people talking about "omnidirectional" jammers vice little MMIC arrays and claiming they are some kind of expert.  Because I guess an expert on ECM wouldn't have heard about Rotman lenses and mini-TWTs in use on U.S. and no doubt other Western ECM systems since the late '70s.  There's more than one way to skin a cat.
Some of us have.


Not talking about theory, but about systems that have F in the air since the late 1970s.  If you think beam steering antennas for ECM are new, it's because you don't know anything about ECM and get your G2 from the back cover of Combat Air Forces International Monthly.
 
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MK       11/12/2009 3:42:25 PM
Don't confuse directional by sector and pin point accuracy with reduced sidelobe.

I', not confusing, I'm telling you that your theory of everyone else spare France using outdated tech even today is nonsense. 
 
Towed jammer are omnidirectional.

Which doesn't mean they are broadcasting all the time. A power managed TRD is certainly not managing power just for fun, but to scope with an identified threat.
 
But except this case of a dedicated plane, none of US combat aircraft has a ECM suit similar to Rafale and has implemented its concept.
 
Well so far there is just one US aircraft with a more or less comprehensive EWS in service the Super Hornet with its IDECM. What the suite is exactly capable of is classified and not much info on it has been released at all. 

Good new for Rafale: we ordered 60 F3 more with AESA this morning so France has ordered 180 Rafale until now.

The order is approved, but has yet to be contracted.
 
 
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