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Subject: UK Pilot flight test the Rafale F3
Bluewings12    11/9/2009 1:57:05 PM
By Peter Collins : Chapter 1 , the aircraft : "Most advanced Allied air forces now have operational fleets of fourth-generation fighters (defined by attributes such as being fly-by-wire, highly unstable, highly agile, net-centric, multi-weapon and multi-role assets). These Western types include the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, Dassault Rafale, Eurofighter Typhoon and Saab Gripen NG. The Boeing F-15E and Lockheed Martin F-16 have an older heritage, but their latest upgrades give them similar multi-role mission capabilities. Of the above group, only the Super Hornet and Rafale M are capable of aircraft-carrier operations. As these fourth-generation fighters' weapons, sensor systems and net-centric capabilities mature, the likelihood of export orders for such an operationally proven package becomes much more realistic. On behalf of Flight International, I became the first UK test pilot to evaluate the Rafale in its current F3 production standard, applicable to aircraft for both French air force and French navy frontline squadrons. The "proof-of-concept" Rafale A first flew in 1986 as an aerodynamic study, leading to the programme's formal launch two years later. The slightly smaller single-seat Rafale C01 and two-seat B01 for the French air force and single-seat M01 and M02 prototypes for the navy flew from 1991. The first production-standard Rafale flew in 1998, and entered service with the navy's 12F squadron at Landivisiau in 2004 in the F1 (air-to-air) standard. Deliveries of the air force's B- and C-model aircraft started in 2006 in the F2 standard, dubbed "omnirole" by Dassault. Since 2008, all Rafales have been delivered in the F3 standard, which adds reconnaissance pod integration and MBDA's ASMP-A nuclear weapon capability. All aircraft delivered in earlier production standards will be brought up to the F3 configuration over the next two years. The French forces plan to purchase 294 Rafales: 234 for the air force and 60 for the navy. Their Rafales are set to replace seven legacy fighter types, and will remain as France's principal combat aircraft until at least 2040. To date, about 70 Rafales have been delivered, with a current production rate of 12 a year. Rafale components and airframe sections are built at various Dassault facilities across France and assembled near Bordeaux, but maintained in design and engineering configuration "lockstep" using the virtual reality, Dassault-patented Catia database also used on the company's Falcon 7X business jet. Rafale software upgrades are scheduled to take place every two years, a complete set of new-generation sensors is set for 2012 and a full mid-life upgrade is planned for 2020 SUPERB PERFORMANCE The Rafale was always designed as an aircraft capable of any air-to-ground, reconnaissance or nuclear strike mission, but retaining superb air-to-air performance and capabilities. Air force and navy examples have made three fully operational deployments to Afghanistan since 2005, giving the French forces unparalleled combat and logistical experience. The commitments have also proved the aircraft's net-centric capabilities within the co-ordination required by coalition air forces and the command and control environment when delivering air support services to ground forces. Six Rafale Ms recently carried out a major joint exercise with the US Navy from the deck of the Nimitz-class aircraft carrier the USS Theodore Roosevelt. The air force's B/C fighters have 80% commonality with the navy's Rafale M model, the main differences being the latter's navalised landing gear, arrestor hook and some fuselage longitudinal strengthening. Overall, the M is about 300kg (661lb) heavier than the B, and has 13 hardpoints, against the 14 found on air force examples. Dassault describes the Rafale as omnirole rather than multirole. This is derived from the wide variety of air-to-ground and air-to-air weapons, sensor pods and fuel tank combinations it can carry; the optimisation of aircraft materials and construction; and the full authority digital FBW controlling a highly agile (very aerodynamically unstable) platform. This also gives the aircraft a massive centre of gravity range and allows for a huge combination of different mission stores to be carried, including the asymmetric loading of heavy stores, both laterally and longitudinally. Other attributes include the wide range of smart and discrete sensors developed for the aircraft, and the way that the vast array of received information is "data fused" by a powerful central computer to reduce pilot workload when presented in the head-down, head-level and head-up displays. The Rafale is designed for day or night covert low-level penetration, and can carry a maximum of 9.5t of external ordinance, equal to the much larger F-15E. With a basic empty weight of 10.3t, an internal fuel capacity of 4.7t and a maximum take-off weight of 24.5t, the Rafale can lift 140% of additional lo
 
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warpig       11/9/2009 4:20:48 PM

7. Optical systems described as bearing only ID systems.

The TV-camera actually is for IDing, the IRST/FLIR is for search and track.

All that does is still give bearing only data as the target is tracked across the FoV, useless for ranging, and you know this, MK.

 
Actually, as far as I saw he didn't describe any use of the IRST at all, unfortunately.  He did seem to claim it had one, but I wonder if that really was the case.  However, he did mention using the TV, and I think this part is actually quite nifty:  "and used the Spectra RWR to cue the FSO TV to do the same against a passing Mirage 2000 on a low-level mission."  I think it's debatable how operationally significant this combination of sensors is, but it's still a neat trick that maybe could prove useful sometimes.


 
 
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Bluewings12       11/9/2009 4:37:30 PM
Herald (Hamilcar) , you couldn 't stop yourself to start a new flame war . Why ?
I posted the entire article without making any meaningful comment to avoid any confrontation . You can of course use your freedom of speech but everybody noticed that you didn 't quote or talked about ANY positive points , it sure shows a solid bias .
 
Your 8 points don 't hold water , none of them I have to say . I could easily add to what MK said to you but it would be like talking about colors with a blind man .
How silly is to say that the RBE2 has a 30nm max range against a 2m square RCS fighter ??? This in itself shows un unacceptable bias . Hamilcar , you still posting as Herald , unfortunatly .
By the way , keep in mind who Peter Collins is and show some respect if you know what that word means . He is still an amazing Pilot and he knows the business of flying a fighter better than any of us here , unless someone on SP is or has been leading the Blue Angels ...
Slowman , the Rafale supercruise in Europe sky @mach 1.2 with a central supersonic fuel tank and 4 Micas .
 
Cheers .
 
 
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MK       11/9/2009 4:47:35 PM
His flight description is about an hour in the air. That is rather firm.

1 h 25 min to be correctly and that involved some aggressive manoeuvering with full burners, supersonic speeds and low level ride. 

That is a weapon's proof of type. Two is not a real deployment.

There were mostly more than 2 aircraft deployed. 3 to be correctly :-p. Anyway it still is a deployment and many detatchments are relative small. Not everyone can afford sending a whole squadron. Of course it's more about collecting some experience etc. but claiming it's not a deployment in the first place is plain wrong and just your usual bashing in that direction.

Electronic obsolescence is a positive choice? What killed the F-22 again?

Well I still like to see a source about the outdated components in the Rafale's MIDS in comparison to what is used by other NATO a/c. IFF, radios etc. are all complient with NATO standard as well.

This can be taken two ways. If he talks anything less than Block 60 F-16 or the BEAGLE then its not a favorable comment about Rafale at all..

How could it be taken in two ways? He says F-15s and F-16s are not of that generation in general terms. 




7. Optical systems described as bearing only ID systems.



The TV-camera actually is for IDing, the IRST/FLIR is for search and track.






All that does is still give bearing only data as the target is tracked across the FoV, useless for ranging, and you know this, MK.




8. Mirage 2000 picked out of the sky at 30 n. miles? Just how bad is that RBE2 radar?  



Doesn't mean it couldn' have detected/tracked it earlier.

 

He actually describes atmospherics and flight conditions at the time of target lockup, including the aspect and clutter conditions, so just how bad is that radar? Very. It doesn't help to draw attention to its real performance parameters.
 
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MK       11/9/2009 4:49:18 PM
Hit the reply button to early :(.
 
All that does is still give bearing only data as the target is tracked across the FoV, useless for ranging, and you know this, MK.
 
That's what the LRF is for and using RWR data and fusing them with the remaining data is another possiblity.
 
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Hamilcar    Technical comments are technical comments.   11/9/2009 4:50:03 PM
As for emotion, there is no room for that in a technical discussiom.
 
I did find it interesting that there was cuing to slave the camera to the RWR so that a VID is quickly possible, but just how useful is that when the Adders are already on the way? 
 
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Bluewings12       11/9/2009 4:53:57 PM
Warpig :
""and used the Spectra RWR to cue the FSO TV to do the same against a passing Mirage 2000 on a low-level mission.""
 
French posters have been talking about this capability for years and when you add the IR Mica LOBL and/or LOAL capabilities , you get a very decent passive shot without even using the LRF . It is of course a shot from the hip in LOAL mode but a pure passive shot if the Mica gets the lock from its rail (LOBL) . Spectra gives the bearing with great accuracy and the FSO TV different zooms tells the pilot how far the opponent is with a small error margin (experience) , so what are the probable chances for Mica to archive a LOAL . If Mica already has a lock , just press the trigger .
The RBE2 hasn 't been used at all .
 
Cheers .
 
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Hamilcar    Technical comments are technical comments.   11/9/2009 4:56:03 PM

Hit the reply button to early :(.

 

All that does is still give bearing only data as the target is tracked across the FoV, useless for ranging, and you know this, MK.

 

That's what the LRF is for and using RWR data and fusing them with the remaining data is another possiblity.


Quite true. Bad solution in European skies, though. Lasers are too easy to degrade or fox with weather or dazzle measures.  Radar is still a better bet at all but WVR or gunfight ranges over lidar. So what does that tell us about the Rafale?  

A lot.
 
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sentinel28a       11/9/2009 5:04:29 PM
Some honest questions from me:
 
1) I don't see the big deal about being able to slave the Rafale's TCS to the radar.  Wasn't the F-14 able to do that?  (I may have misread the article on this.)
 
2) Why did the Rafale M have to give up a hardpoint? 
 
Not trying to start a flame war--I want to know out of semi-professional curiosity. 
 
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MK       11/9/2009 5:12:38 PM
Some honest questions from me:

1) I don't see the big deal about being able to slave the Rafale's TCS to the radar.  Wasn't the F-14 able to do that?  (I may have misread the article on this.)

Yes the F-14 was already capable of doing it. It was simply reported, nothing to waste to much thoughts about.
 

2) Why did the Rafale M have to give up a hardpoint? 

Because of the nose gear which is longer and strengthed to cope with the carrier operations. 


 
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Hamilcar       11/9/2009 5:13:30 PM

Some honest questions from me:

 

1) I don't see the big deal about being able to slave the Rafale's TCS to the radar.  Wasn't the F-14 able to do that?  (I may have misread the article on this.)

Ir was. Just not as well. 

2) Why did the Rafale M have to give up a hardpoint? 

Weight and CM most likely.

Not trying to start a flame war--I want to know out of semi-professional curiosity. 


 
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