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Subject: UK Pilot flight test the Rafale F3
Bluewings12    11/9/2009 1:57:05 PM
By Peter Collins : Chapter 1 , the aircraft : "Most advanced Allied air forces now have operational fleets of fourth-generation fighters (defined by attributes such as being fly-by-wire, highly unstable, highly agile, net-centric, multi-weapon and multi-role assets). These Western types include the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, Dassault Rafale, Eurofighter Typhoon and Saab Gripen NG. The Boeing F-15E and Lockheed Martin F-16 have an older heritage, but their latest upgrades give them similar multi-role mission capabilities. Of the above group, only the Super Hornet and Rafale M are capable of aircraft-carrier operations. As these fourth-generation fighters' weapons, sensor systems and net-centric capabilities mature, the likelihood of export orders for such an operationally proven package becomes much more realistic. On behalf of Flight International, I became the first UK test pilot to evaluate the Rafale in its current F3 production standard, applicable to aircraft for both French air force and French navy frontline squadrons. The "proof-of-concept" Rafale A first flew in 1986 as an aerodynamic study, leading to the programme's formal launch two years later. The slightly smaller single-seat Rafale C01 and two-seat B01 for the French air force and single-seat M01 and M02 prototypes for the navy flew from 1991. The first production-standard Rafale flew in 1998, and entered service with the navy's 12F squadron at Landivisiau in 2004 in the F1 (air-to-air) standard. Deliveries of the air force's B- and C-model aircraft started in 2006 in the F2 standard, dubbed "omnirole" by Dassault. Since 2008, all Rafales have been delivered in the F3 standard, which adds reconnaissance pod integration and MBDA's ASMP-A nuclear weapon capability. All aircraft delivered in earlier production standards will be brought up to the F3 configuration over the next two years. The French forces plan to purchase 294 Rafales: 234 for the air force and 60 for the navy. Their Rafales are set to replace seven legacy fighter types, and will remain as France's principal combat aircraft until at least 2040. To date, about 70 Rafales have been delivered, with a current production rate of 12 a year. Rafale components and airframe sections are built at various Dassault facilities across France and assembled near Bordeaux, but maintained in design and engineering configuration "lockstep" using the virtual reality, Dassault-patented Catia database also used on the company's Falcon 7X business jet. Rafale software upgrades are scheduled to take place every two years, a complete set of new-generation sensors is set for 2012 and a full mid-life upgrade is planned for 2020 SUPERB PERFORMANCE The Rafale was always designed as an aircraft capable of any air-to-ground, reconnaissance or nuclear strike mission, but retaining superb air-to-air performance and capabilities. Air force and navy examples have made three fully operational deployments to Afghanistan since 2005, giving the French forces unparalleled combat and logistical experience. The commitments have also proved the aircraft's net-centric capabilities within the co-ordination required by coalition air forces and the command and control environment when delivering air support services to ground forces. Six Rafale Ms recently carried out a major joint exercise with the US Navy from the deck of the Nimitz-class aircraft carrier the USS Theodore Roosevelt. The air force's B/C fighters have 80% commonality with the navy's Rafale M model, the main differences being the latter's navalised landing gear, arrestor hook and some fuselage longitudinal strengthening. Overall, the M is about 300kg (661lb) heavier than the B, and has 13 hardpoints, against the 14 found on air force examples. Dassault describes the Rafale as omnirole rather than multirole. This is derived from the wide variety of air-to-ground and air-to-air weapons, sensor pods and fuel tank combinations it can carry; the optimisation of aircraft materials and construction; and the full authority digital FBW controlling a highly agile (very aerodynamically unstable) platform. This also gives the aircraft a massive centre of gravity range and allows for a huge combination of different mission stores to be carried, including the asymmetric loading of heavy stores, both laterally and longitudinally. Other attributes include the wide range of smart and discrete sensors developed for the aircraft, and the way that the vast array of received information is "data fused" by a powerful central computer to reduce pilot workload when presented in the head-down, head-level and head-up displays. The Rafale is designed for day or night covert low-level penetration, and can carry a maximum of 9.5t of external ordinance, equal to the much larger F-15E. With a basic empty weight of 10.3t, an internal fuel capacity of 4.7t and a maximum take-off weight of 24.5t, the Rafale can lift 140% of additional lo
 
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Hamilcar       11/11/2009 2:17:44 PM

I reput the Thales document


I remember you that DIRCM is scheduled also for Rafale roadmap.


The source of the Australian article is an internet newsletter called Counterpunch. Its about as credible as the National Enquirer.
 
DIRCM is an active onboard strobe dazzler solution, as opposed to a signal decoy. 
 
About decoys-they are designed to lure even if they have a false proximity range signal jammer built into them.   
 
===========================================
 


 
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Hamilcar    Nice picture.   11/11/2009 2:20:39 PM










13 carrier based rafale M were deployed to Afghanistan between  2007/02/11 and 2007/05/24





That's a bit more than 2 aircrafts.









Not at the same time in theatre. Check your facts, please.



The fact is that during its last deployement to the indian Ocean in support of operation enduring freedom between february 2007 and may 2007, the aircraft carrier R91 Charle de Gaulle had 12 rafale M (13 was a typo) and 16 super etendard on board... at the same time.

 

There is a nice picture of the CdG when it returned from this mission showing clearly the 12 rafale M :


http://www.netmarine.net/bat/porteavi/cdg/pourquoi/pf01.jpg" width="950" height="344" /> 

 

During the same time, 3 rafale B and 3 mirage 2000D of the french air force were also operating from Dushanbe, Tadjikistan.




So  that was a total of 15 rafale (9 rafale F1 and 6 rafale F2) deployed at the same time in theatre.

Indian Ocean is NOT Afghanistan. Check your ranges and on station times. THREE-land based. That's all. 
 
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Hamilcar       11/11/2009 2:25:35 PM
 
Okay I read that advertising. What is special about it, FS? I read the same kind of garbage from LockMart. 
 
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Hamilcar    What does the Apache Longbow have?   11/11/2009 2:55:46 PM
 
See what is the value of advertising? 
 
Sarcasm off.
 
Let's not science fiction this topic anymore than we have, okay, folks? 
 
Much of the heat and wild assertions we read here is directly ascribable to people who think there is something magic about certain advertising claims for a certain product.
 
The facts and they are facts are far more pedestrian. RWRs all tend to work the same way, as do missiles and avionics and thrust/lift systems . What is different is the design choices, and the actual level of technology used.
 
Wrong design choices mated to the best technology on Earth can ruin a program. A 1970s electronic architecture choice killed a remarkable plane. That and politics: the other one that lost to it at least could be redesigned to take a new avionics harness.
 
A wrong choice in airframe plan-form almost killed the Typhoon. Good rethink saved the plane.
 
Some POLITICAL design choices and sheer aviation technological incompetence crippled the Rafale.
 
Those are long argued and well established facts.
 
The French wanted a general purpose bomb truck as their standard one tactical aircraft. They got a rather good but overpriced one. 

 
 

 
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Bluewings12       11/11/2009 3:17:47 PM
Hamilcar , you are a donkey , a bad biased donkey .
You twist everything you dislike and you do it very badly , even the most anti-french poster knows that you are lying .
After multiple bans , I see that Herald hasn 't changed yet . If I was you , I would be worried ...
 
Once for all , you must understand that we can read your opinion (even hugely biased) but we will not take it into account , and certainly not without fact(s) . While I and other friendly posters are providing official links and pictures , you give nothing but you biased opinion . Can 't you see that you' re more than a dollar short ?
Furthermore , you don 't seem to be aware of the CdG Ops in the Indian Ocean against the Talibans in A-Stan and that I cannot believe : you know about it but you lie again .
How many times have we talked about this deployment Herald ? Countless times ...
I even posted this beautiful picture to show how and why Rafales where in range of A-Stan for daily operations :
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/1504/ravito.jpg" width="417" height="640" /> 
 
Check the loads on the two aircraft .
We are used to , we even refuelled Tomcats years ago with our Super-Etendards :
 
http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/4954/photo08.jpg" width="640" height="465" />
 
My advice to you : stop posting for a couple of days , read some more and stop lying . Then , come back .
 
Cheers .
 
 
 

 
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Hamilcar    Technical discussion   11/11/2009 3:26:51 PM
of HOW things work is not opinion.
 
If you cannot follow it, just say so, and I will dumb it down even further. 
 
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french stratege       11/11/2009 3:41:41 PM
Okay I read that advertising. What is special about it, FS? I read the same kind of garbage from LockMart. 
I'm interested to get the Lockmart document if you can post the link.
 
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Hamilcar       11/11/2009 4:12:07 PM
 
You can pull it off their site. Its not that big a deal.
 
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Lynstyne       11/11/2009 4:19:56 PM

Hamilcar , you are a donkey , a bad biased donkey .

You twist everything you dislike and you do it very badly , even the most anti-french poster knows that you are lying .

After multiple bans , I see that Herald hasn 't changed yet . If I was you , I would be worried ...

 

Once for all , you must understand that we can read your opinion (even hugely biased) but we will not take it into account , and certainly not without fact(s) . While I and other friendly posters are providing official links and pictures , you give nothing but you biased opinion . Can 't you see that you' re more than a dollar short ?


Furthermore , you don 't seem to be aware of the CdG Ops in the Indian Ocean against the Talibans in A-Stan and that I cannot believe : you know about it but you lie again .

How many times have we talked about this deployment Herald ? Countless times ...


I even posted this beautiful picture to show how and why Rafales where in range of A-Stan for daily operations :


http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/1504/ravito.jpg" width="417" /> 

 

Check the loads on the two aircraft .

We are used to , we even refuelled Tomcats years ago with our Super-Etendards :

 

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/4954/photo08.jpg" width="640" />


 

My advice to you : stop posting for a couple of days , read some more and stop lying . Then , come back .

 

Cheers .


 

 

 





Going off topic - that is the 1st time ive seen a picture of a tanker smaller than the receiver.  was it apublicity stunt / demo or was it practised on a regular basis
 
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gf0012-aust       11/11/2009 4:33:12 PM
13 carrier based rafale M were deployed to Afghanistan between  2007/02/11 and 2007/05/24

That's a bit more than 2 aircrafts.



FS, there might be a loss in translation here.  He's not referring to deployed assets, he's referring to strike packages.  The Rafale strike packages were much smaller and were what is termed "assisted" packages
Assisted normally refers to having other assets escort or compliment that strike package.  eg it could inlclude AAR, it could include top cover AEW/AWACs, it could refer to other aircraft acting as gun bunnies on top (which is a range of what assets did actually assist in that area of ops)






Not at the same time in theatre. Check your facts, please.



The fact is that during its last deployement to the indian Ocean in support of operation enduring freedom between february 2007 and may 2007, the aircraft carrier R91 Charle de Gaulle had 12 rafale M (13 was a typo) and 16 super etendard on board... at the same time.

 

There is a nice picture of the CdG when it returned from this mission showing clearly the 12 rafale M :


http://www.netmarine.net/bat/porteavi/cdg/pourquoi/pf01.jpg" width="950" height="344" /> 

 

During the same time, 3 rafale B and 3 mirage 2000D of the french air force were also operating from Dushanbe, Tadjikistan.




So  that was a total of 15 rafale (9 rafale F1 and 6 rafale F2) deployed at the same time in theatre.

 
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