Military History | How To Make War | Wars Around the World Rules of Use How to Behave on an Internet Forum
Fighters, Bombers and Recon Discussion Board
   Return to Topic Page
Subject: Rafale Proves Itself
SYSOP    8/7/2011 7:59:23 AM
 
Quote    Reply

Show Only Poster Name and Title     Newest to Oldest
Pages: PREV  1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54   NEXT
halloweene       12/13/2011 12:18:09 AM
The graph were done by a journalist  45-shooter, the fact that presentation of data is inacurate doesnt mean the data are wrong! Especially when a very serious journal like Jane's also claimes to have seen the data and go for the same conclusions (Rafale superior on the technical ground). These leaked reports are so BS that swiss gal attorney started an inquiry to try to find where the leaks came from. Especially when swiss army started an internal inquiry to find where the leaks came from...
 
@herald, as usual you dont answer directly to questions. Hitting the wrong oilfield? Prove it. DGSE agents dead? prove it! 
Rofl about Moubarrak! He was your ally and you did nothing to have him go! So now its US action that lead Moubarrak out???
 
French stole Raytheon data? Prove it lmao. All those secrets we stole from us, you think they would have learned anything and protect their data? Apparently no, Raytheon should engage herald as security officer, theirs are crap as compared to him...
 
Dont bother bwisback,  i'm not impressed by herald rhetorics ;) . (btw using a rhetoric inspired by descartes in his treaty about passions doese not put him in rhetorician school) and this is def off topic).
 
Quote    Reply

45-Shooter       12/13/2011 1:17:12 AM

I never challenged the graph or it's source!

I challenged the conclusions you drew from it! The Swiss bought the Grippon instead of the Rafale and that meant that there was not a "large enough" difference in the performance of the two/three/four AC to over come the advantages of lower price and the integration issues!

Performance has many sides and the French chose to buy a less powerful aircraft than they could possibly have had because they were willing to settle for less of everything else in order to meet budgetary requirements! If you had read any of the initial discussions by the French Government, you would know these facts! It was a conchous choice made to accept less performance in return for a lower price and to demand a French product that employed French workers in it's manufacture instead of buying a better plane for less money that was made someplace else!

This is a fact of life and like so many facts they are pesky things that are hard to deal with if you fail to know the rest of the story!

 
Quote    Reply

halloweene       12/13/2011 3:51:27 AM
Better plane tell me which one is atm better?
From what you are saying, its an foreign product.  Apart from F22 (which is not sold to foreign countries and have no A2G) abilities, tell me which?
And yes Swiss chose Gripen because they considered that it was sufficient for them despite poorest tech eval. and way cheaper.
It is their choice , maybe sensible.
 
Quote    Reply

heraldabc    Considcering that Sarkozy engineered the whole    12/13/2011 7:42:21 AM
imperialist event of course he recognized the rebels.
H.
 
Quote    Reply

heraldabc     Inbcompetent buzz word explanation   12/13/2011 8:00:26 AM
Incompetent, in simple English this is WHAT you should have said. Slow air down to subsonic before its ingested in the intake so it can be compressed, mixed with fuel, and burned in the combustion pot,  Increase density of the air flow through the jet tube, AIR RAM EFFECT. The dump doors actually do not increase air flow when open, they spill OUT air. Splitter plates SPLIT air flow, they do not do anything else.
 
 
That correct explanation, (not your BS) is why you should be quiet shooter and LISTEN and read.
 
SHEESH, I'm surrounded by the ignorant.
 
H.









http://www.defenceaviation.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Rafale.jpg" height="426" width="640" />





 



You see where the air ram tunnels to the M-88s are, Hollow?  You see where the strakes that lead to the canard are?



 



A canard......... by the way...is a fore-wing used for pitch control on a delta winged aircraft.



 



As for the rest of your noise... HAVE A NICE DAY.



 



H.



 



 





See the splitter plates between the inlets and the strakes? They prevent the ingestion of air compressed by the strakes. lots of dirty and or bottom intake planes have them. See the dump doors behind the inlets? They feed air to the engine any time the inlet ram pressure is not sufficient to keep them closed with respect to the ambient pressure outside of the inlets! That photo tells me and any other even mildly educated person that the air pressure inside the inlet is lower than the air pressure over the doors! The engine is sucking more air than the inlet flows!
Your picture blows great big holes in your strake compression theory!

Ps. Anyone with half a brain also knows the inlets are sized for M-1.8+-!

But that is not even close to the most telling details of the picture!

There is a huge CL semi-Drop Tank along with two very big Drop tanks and only TWO AAMs to let the little plane with the big heart carry two semi-heavy bombs to the required distance! How far was that exactly? RIGHT! Rafale is dogmeat and every nation that has seen it knows it!


 
Quote    Reply

heraldabc     Inbcompetent buzz word explanation   12/13/2011 8:05:56 AM
Fifth; I was working for Boeing and then Micky-D back then and I know a great deal more than you do about what went on back then. There were no published reports that stated that they actually looked at Compound delta wings! They never asked Boeing for any of their extensively researched data. As far as I know, they never asked any one for it and there is no record of any single wind tunnel test of a cranked delta planform model! None what so ever! And I do know what they did do in that regard! ( NOTHING!)
 
LIE.
 
H.
 
Quote    Reply

heraldabc       12/13/2011 8:12:51 AM

READ.... Hollow, you are ill-informed.
 
I have a three stooges act on my hands.
 
H.
 

 

@herald, as usual you dont answer directly to questions. Hitting the wrong oilfield? Prove it. DGSE agents dead? prove it! 

Rofl about Moubarrak! He was your ally and you did nothing to have him go! So now its US action that lead Moubarrak out???

 

French stole Raytheon data? Prove it lmao. All those secrets we stole from us, you think they would have learned anything and protect their data? Apparently no, Raytheon should engage herald as security officer, theirs are crap as compared to him...

 



Dont bother bwisback,  i'm not impressed by herald rhetorics ;) . (btw using a rhetoric inspired by descartes in his treaty about passions doese not put him in rhetorician school) and this is def off topic).
For the rest of it, don't waste MY time and MY oxygen.
 
H.
 
Quote    Reply

BWisBack       12/13/2011 9:24:05 AM
45-Shooter , you said :
 
""See the dump doors behind the inlets? They feed air to the engine any time the inlet ram pressure is not sufficient to keep them closed with respect to the ambient pressure outside of the inlets! ""
 
Wrong . Look :
http://i40.tinypic.com/kecll1.jpg" /> 
 These doors have nothing to do with the engines airflow . Their role is to allow cold airflow around the engines to diminish the rear heat signature . Only 2 aircraft are using this trick , Rafale and F-22 .
From Jean-Claude Hironde of Dassault-aviation :
 
"Air-to-Air missions (interception and dog fight) need both use of high angle of attack till maximum lift and high Mach number. Consequently, a thoroughly optimization of the air intakes has been undertaken to achieve the required behaviour for stationary and non stationary air flows, at high angle of attack and yaw, up to the limit of available maneuverability thanks to the delta canard configuration.
This air intake had also to operate up to a Mach number of 2 and match the stealth level required for the whole aircraft by the French authorities. The optimization, based on intensive aerodynamic computations and wind tunnel tests, converged on a very new design: air intakes protected at high angle of attack by a special shape of the front fuselage (like a boat stem) and the canard which interact on the air flow in front of the air intake. This stem is sufficient to protect also at high yaw angle and
to guarantee an appropriate independence of both air intakes, in case of flame out of one engine.
This design, which features no movable devices (shock-cone, ramp) and no devices of boundary layer’s suction, is the quite unique Mach 2 air intake of this type in the world."
 
So Shooter , when you write (I quote) :
""That photo tells me and any other even mildly educated person that the air pressure inside the inlet is lower than the air pressure over the doors! The engine is sucking more air than the inlet flows!
Your picture blows great big holes in your strake compression theory!
Ps. Anyone with half a brain also knows the inlets are sized for M-1.8+-!""
 
You are wrong on all accounts and now , you know a bit more on the Rafale .
You are also wrong when you say (I quote) :
""There is a huge CL semi-Drop Tank along with two very big Drop tanks and only TWO AAMs to let the little plane with the big heart carry two semi-heavy bombs to the required distance! How far was that exactly? RIGHT! Rafale is dogmeat and every nation that has seen it knows it! ""
 
First , this Rafale can carry 4 more AAMs (belly hardpoints and 3rd wing pylons) , then its range is only beaten by the F-15E or K and by some Su-30 . Remember that the Rafale is a ten tons empty class and giving that much range to such a light fighter is unseen before . This "dogmeat" can give a spanking to anything flying bare a F-22 , Shooter .
You also said :
""Nation-States that want to play with the big dogs think F/A-18E-F, F-15E-S, F-35, or F/A-22! ""
 
You can forget the old Teens as they are outclassed by Typhoon and Rafale . The F-35 is still an unknown quantity and its futur is in geopardy . Also , the F-22 is not for sale . While theViper Blk-60 is an excellent multirole aircraft , it is not in US inventory . The best you have is the Blk-52 . The US AirForce is made of 70s era fighters , only the F-22 is recent .
The best US multirole fighter is the Super Hornet  , you know it 's the aircraft who has been constantly beaten to death in technical evals by the Rafale .
 
Cheers .
 
 
Quote    Reply

heraldabc    Thanks for the readback, Curly.   12/13/2011 9:33:01 AM
Dumpdoors DUMP air around the exhaust plume.
 
Sheesh, and the ignorance continues....
 
Four paras to say what can be said in seven words.
 
The rest is GIGO as usual.
 
H.
 
 
Quote    Reply

BWisBack       12/13/2011 9:49:24 AM
Herald , these doors are not "dumpdoors" , they are entries for cold air . The cold air is running in between the engines and the airframe to hide the heat from outside . The air is then mixed with the exhaust .
As you say , sheesh the ignorance continue ...
 
Cheers .
 
Quote    Reply



 Latest
 News
 
 Most
 Read
 
 Most
 Commented
 Hot
 Topics