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Subject: Rafale Proves Itself
SYSOP    8/7/2011 7:59:23 AM
 
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heraldabc    Jammer X^N+1, LPI radar X^n+3    12/15/2011 9:14:06 AM
You do understand what I mean?
 
H.
 
 


Which is why every 5th Gen design, manned and unmanned uses LO/VLO to dramatically increase its detection advantage, the Rafale is not an equivalent to this in any respect, neither is the Typhoon or any other 4th generation design, despite what you might want to believe. 



 




 
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halloweene       12/15/2011 9:18:28 AM
@ H
 
Straight from the constructor site :
Très compact, ce moteur (de 50 à 75 kN de poussée avec postcombustion - 11 250 à 17 000 lb) offre un rapport poussée sur masse élevé et une pilotabilité exceptionnelle, notamment lors d’accélération.
But i guess you know the product better then its constructor...
 
3rd pilot simply started  to purge, he wasn't fooled by poor (lol do you know it?) fuel management system. Fourth had a spatial disorientation, pretty well known phenomena
 
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halloweene       12/15/2011 9:21:42 AM
And no weweren't out of ammos (i'm quoting a  recent interview in DSI of the Charles de Gaulle commander). It's a urban legend. Which ammo did u give us? Scalp? AASM? ??
 
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heraldabc       12/15/2011 9:26:10 AM
LASER guided bombs.
 
Really do you expect your own military to tell YOU the truth? Ours don't. See referent to the F-22.

 
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heraldabc    Already REFUTED TWICE.   12/15/2011 9:35:17 AM
In that Nato report I cited about the M-88 management life extension problem.  Core engine temperatures had to be reduced to save the compressor blade spools and allow the engine to operate as designed safely. Less thrust than claimed. Even KNOW exactly how much less.
 
 
If you reread what you just wrote, its exactly what I said. You just tried to gobbledegook it with imprecision. 
 
When pilots don't LOOK where they are supposed to look, and if a pilot hits a purge button when he was supposed to switch tanks, well... either the pilots are POORLY trained, or there is a system problem. French pilots don't make those kinds of stupid mistakes, so the fail is a DESIGN one.    
 
QED.
 
H.
 
 
 
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MK       12/15/2011 10:38:26 AM
Wrt the LPI thingie...
 
Every radar wave has to travel from the transmitter to the target and back. This means that the return received by the radar receiver is already significantly weaker than the signal on the target. Add reflectivity of the target and the discrepance might grow even more. The RWR is subsequently on the winning side, though the radar usually has the greater aperture and possibly gain at its disposal which may compensate to a more or lesser extend for the reduced signal strength. In any case the transmission power must be adapted to allow the receiving radar to make sense out of the returns. Identifying LPI transmissions is certainly much easier today given the increased sensitivity of modern RWR/ESM receivers. Even LPI radars use a certain frequency spectrum only, which is likely just a fraction of the total band (X for example). Even with permanent frequency changes at a random pattern you'll receive a number of pulses with similar amplitude and within a certain frequency range from the very same direction. More difficult is to mimic these signals with a jammer, but it's in fact not necessary to mimic all of them. Replicating some accurately might be enough to fool an enemy radar, another option is to saturate the enemy radar with a high energy jammer. The CATBird F-35 avionics demonstrator has perfectly proven that it is possible to detect, track and even jam the F-22 and its LPI radar. A catergorical "nothing can't detect or jam the LPI radar of platform X" is completely ignorant and wishful thinking at best. Whether a specific platform Y could do this is yet another question, but who are we to claim "fact" with certainity when NO ONE here is all relevant data at hand? Just food for thought. Otherwise this thread is a smash fest which goes down hill, as usual. 
 
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heraldabc    When you KNOW your own, its easy, MK.    12/15/2011 10:57:12 AM
In other words, its a bad example to negate a general claim.
 
H.
 
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MK       12/15/2011 11:59:17 AM
Of course it's easier to defeat your own systems as you know exactly how they work. However, it doesn't mean that no one else could figure how to do it and it's in general possible, not impossible as some appear to believe. No one says it's easy.
 
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heraldabc       12/15/2011 1:34:43 PM
I'd actually be a LOT more worried about the Russians, British, or the Israelis, than American experimenters, MK All of them are really very good at waveform mapping and designing the spoofing stuff to introduce false signal returns into American radars. Each of them is familiar with American EW tech. either in opposition or cooperation with its design.
The French, not so much. Not enough combat experience for them to know what to do. We don't trust them at all.
 
And as Reactive said, it all starts with learning how the enemy RFG logic in the transmitter works and what wave forms it generates. You can map it, but its better to have the actual transmitter. 

Of course it's easier to defeat your own systems as you know exactly how they work. However, it doesn't mean that no one else could figure how to do it and it's in general possible, not impossible as some appear to believe. No one says it's easy.
H.
 
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halloweene       12/15/2011 1:45:34 PM
The French, not so much. Not enough combat experience for them to know what to do. We don't trust them at all.
 
 
 
ROFL another basic frensh bashing, you are so twisted vs French HH that you get really funny!
 
 
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