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Subject: How to judge what the best fighter plane is?
45-Shooter    1/3/2013 5:09:26 PM
I would list the following traits in the order of their importance; 1. Cruising speed under combat conditions. 2. Range/Persistence under combat conditions. 3. Flight qualities, specifically the ability to point the nose at the target easily and a very high rate of roll. 4. CL Guns with high MV/BC and rates of fire. 5. Pitch response, IE the rate at which you can load the plane. 6. Climb at Military Power. In WW-II terms, that means ~75-80% throttle, rich mixture and appropriate pitch on the prop.( A setting that can be held for at least 30 minutes!) 7. Top speed! To escape or run down the target. 8. Lastly the ability to turn in the so called "Dog Fight"! After you rate these choices, I'll mark the list with what I think is the strength of each atribute.
 
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45-Shooter       7/8/2013 3:59:12 PM
Really? When did you go to Panama and what did you do when you were there?
That is a lie. All of it.
It is you who are a foolish lier. To think of disaster relief and peace keeping as imperialism is a very serious failure of the thought processes!
1. Do you personally believe that good men have a duty, no moral obligation to oppose evil?
2. If these were truly "Imperialistic" adventures, where are the many colonial possessions now?
3. Why is not Panama a protectorate now?
4. Why are none of the various places we have intervened, except for Puerto Rico and Guam which we can not seem to get rid of, not now US Possessions?
5. Why did we not keep France and England, to say nothing of Germany, Italy and Japan after WW-II? After all, we "Occupied" all of those places too during and after the War.
So your logic is VERY flawed, or you are just doing this to wind me up? In either case it makes you look so very childish and silly!
But one last thing about all of that, is my deep and everlasting shame that we did not intervene in Africa to stop all of the blood shed there!


 
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marat,jean       7/8/2013 10:07:49 PM
I told you, that you were a liar. Now WHY would I KNOW this? 
 
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45-Shooter    Because you are prejudice?   7/10/2013 10:01:38 PM
Prejudice must cloud your vision to think any of the prior post by you was true!
Now WHY would I KNOW this? 
Because you do not?

 
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45-Shooter       7/10/2013 11:26:16 PM

As for the Northern European “Turkey Shoot” of late 41 through to mid 42, that was all to do with theFw-190 being the best fighter in the World at the time and being able to outclass the
Spitfire Mk-V. The best the Americans would have had to offer in any numbers during that period was the P-40 .... just saying.

As for Hartmann, he was the best ace ever and therefore an atypical example. Irrelevant to the discussion.


I would ask in response, what about the other 100 or so Germans who all shot down more than 100 planes each? What about the other 2,400 Nazi Aces who shot down, IIRC, 40 or more EA?


 
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45-Shooter    Still waiting for answers to these questions MaratABC!   7/10/2013 11:32:15 PM


Really? When did you go to Panama and what did you do when you were there?
To think of disaster relief and peace keeping as imperialism is a very serious failure of the thought processes!
1. Do you personally believe that good men have a duty, no moral obligation to oppose evil?
2. If these were truly "Imperialistic" adventures, where are the many colonial possessions now?
3. Why is not Panama a protectorate now?
4. Why are none of the various places we have intervened, except for Puerto Rico and Guam which we can not seem to get rid of, not now US Possessions?
5. Why did we not keep France, to say nothing of Germany, Italy and Japan after WW-II? After all, we "Occupied" all of those places too during and after the War.
In either case it makes you look so very childish and silly!
But one last thing about all of that, is my deep and everlasting shame that we did not intervene in Africa to stop all of the blood shed there!





 
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marat,jean       7/11/2013 2:03:51 AM
A fool will wait forever for his false challenges to be answered, and a liar will; never admit when he's been caught. Panama is not what you claimed at all. You've never been there.
 
It is THAT simple.
 
 
 
 
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oldbutnotwise       7/11/2013 4:50:13 AM
I would ask in response, what about the other 100 or so Germans who all shot down more than 100 planes each? What about the other 2,400 Nazi Aces who shot down, IIRC, 40 or more EA?
 
and what about the the hundreds that didnt score any? according to Mike Spick not only was Hartman not the best ace he wasnt even the best German ace, If you allow for oppotunity (what he calls strike rate) then it can be shown that no one country shows any advantage, the Germans scored these big numbers as the pilot concerned had more oppotunity, if you score a victory once in every 10 missions where you encounter the enemy and encounter the enemy once in every 10 missions then if you fly 100 missions thats 1 victory, if you fly 1000 missions thats 10 victories, nothing to do with ability
 
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45-Shooter    Still waiting for your resume'!   7/11/2013 2:16:32 PM

A fool will wait forever for his false challenges to be answered, and a liar will; never admit when he's been caught. Panama is not what you claimed at all. You've never been there.
I'm no fool, unless you count arguing with fools??? But I have been to Panama in late '67 just before deployment to RVN.
 
It is THAT simple. Yes, it is that simple! Why don't you post your resume' and why not check mine?



 
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45-Shooter    Silliness squared!   7/11/2013 2:36:55 PM
Do you really think EBH was not a great Stick and Rudder man? That he was not able to convert so many "Opportunities" into Victories? But you have still not answered my question about the other 2,499 German Aces who all shot down more planes than any American or Brit/RAF Pilot? How do you explain those numbers? They had to be doing something right. How do you explain the he never lost a wingman?
You are cherry picking something irrelevant to deflect the argument. The Germans came dam close to shooting down more EAs than all the Allies combined. The Germans only made about 121,000 planes during and before the war counting those on hand at the start and lost about a third of them to accidents and non-combat causes, which after counting survivors, only leaves about 75,000 to become Allied Victories.
HOW DO YOU EXPLAIN THAT?



 
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marat,jean       7/11/2013 2:45:45 PM
Still a liar. As you claim all these things, Stewie, I wonder why  you think you can lie and not get caught?
 
Because I do not wish my private life polluted with such as you? 
 

A fool will wait forever for his false challenges to be answered, and a liar will; never admit when he's been caught. Panama is not what you claimed at all. You've never been there.

I'm no fool, unless you count arguing with fools??? But I have been to Panama in late '67 just before deployment to RVN.
 
It is THAT simple. Yes, it is that simple! Why don't you post your resume' and why not check mine?




 
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