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Subject: Modify the B-17 into night bomber/low altatude streak bomber?
45-Shooter    2/14/2013 3:55:59 PM
Given the multiple lines of debate; B-17 Vs Lancaster Vs Mossy, I post the following question; To convert the B-17 from a day bomber into a night/streak bomber, remove the top, bottom and chin turrets, remove the waist and cheek guns and gunners, relocate the flight deck to just behind the bombadier's space so that there is onlythree or four crew! Install large spinners on the props and install a single 20 mm auto-cannon on a flexible "X" bow mount in the plexi nose. Reduction in frontal area, weight and increases in streamlinning make flight both much faster and much more efficient! Since there is room for four 4,000 pound MC bombs in the bomb bay, the shakles should be modified to hold those four heavy bombs if the larger shakle does not fit now. Otherwise eight 2,000 pound bombs should be the standard load. Given the 210-220 knot cruising speed of the Mossy required to make the placard range, the new faster B-17N/S should offer more of everything that makes the Mossy so neat?
 
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Maratabc       3/15/2013 9:36:10 AM
This is fantasy. To assume a fact without proof is insane.






How many MK 103Ms did they make Shooter?



 



How many Bf-109s were they fitted to?



 



The answer, to both questions, is ONE.



 



The mounting in the single Bf-109K-10 it was fitted to was considered unsuccessful, so the programme was abandoned.



Then it's at least one and it must have been the plane my old Land Lord flew! He thought it was the cat's meow as far as knocking down bombers!

 
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45-Shooter    I'm baaaaack!   6/25/2013 12:25:30 AM











How many MK 103Ms did they make Shooter?





 





How many Bf-109s were they fitted to?





 





The answer, to both questions, is ONE.





 





The mounting in the single Bf-109K-10 it was fitted to was considered unsuccessful, so the programme was abandoned.





Then it's at least one and it must have been the plane my old Land Lord flew! He thought it was the cat's meow as far as knocking down bombers!

The problem with your lack of logic is that you also have no imagination. Because you can not imagine something, you can not accept the fact that it was either done, Me-109K or even possible. I just got back from vacation and saw half a dozen WW-II single engine fighters in various museums. My favorite was the P-51H at the Ex-Chanute AFB in or more exactly near Champaign-Urbana, Ill. I was allowed to climb on to a work stand and physically measure the space under the cowl between the engine mounts/bearers and the engine proper. There is much more than enough space/volume to mount almost any 30 mm cannon on either/both sides of the engine. Hint/question; Which German WW-II 30 MM gun is larger/harder to fit into that confined space? Answer: Neither! The space is 14.3" tall, 8.8" wide and almost ten feet from the fire wall to the back of the prop disk. So it is wide and tall enough to fit the much more bulky Mk-108 and more than long enough to fit the much narrower, but longer Mk-103, or a much more modern gun like the DEFFA 793 Revolver gun. With electrically primed ammo, almost any gun can be easily synchronised to fire through the prop disk.

 
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marat,jean       6/25/2013 5:25:56 PM
From your banning?
 
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Reactive       6/25/2013 6:35:42 PM
Well this is going to go to shit pretty quickly.. 
 
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oldbutnotwise       6/26/2013 2:42:24 AM
Shooter measurements are famous for being optimistic, IIRC a P51D was 8'8" from firewall to prop and as they actually moved the cockpit forward on the H, I doubt it is 10 feet
 
as the US didnt have electrical priming or for that matter a working 30mm (or 20mm unless they adopted the RAF changes) the rest is a trip to la la land
 
the fact they dropped the 2x.5 from the P51 might give an indication of the space available
 
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45-Shooter       6/26/2013 11:38:07 PM

From your banning?
No, from my month long vacation to Europe and the western half of the US while driving to and from the East coast.

 
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45-Shooter       6/26/2013 11:46:21 PM

 
 
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45-Shooter       6/26/2013 11:57:31 PM

Shooter measurements are famous for being optimistic, IIRC a P51D was 8'8" from firewall to prop and as they actually moved the cockpit forward on the H, I doubt it is 10 feet
Actually it is 7' 3.5" in the D, but the firewall down low can be opened up to the leading edge of the wing box to well over 10'! Secondly, the H was much longer than the D and the cowl line was raised to give the pilot a better view over the nose. Again leaving well over 10 feet from the back face of the prop disk to the rear most position of a possible breach mount. Pictures if you like.
 
as the US didnt have electrical priming or for that matter a working 30mm (or 20mm unless they adopted the RAF changes) the rest is a trip to la la land
Given the general nature of the first post to which my reply was made, it made sense to include German guns and ammo to.
 
the fact they dropped the 2x.5 from the P51 might give an indication of the space available
Not at all. It was done for maintenance reasons! AND to make more room for the inlet to the down draught carb in the Merlin and the built in sand filters that did not bugger up the nose like those on the Spitfire!


 
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Jabberwocky       6/27/2013 4:56:05 AM
To fit any weapons into the lower nose of a Merlin-powered P-51, you'd need to reocate the following:
 
The carburettor nose air intake, piping and attachments;
The carburettor itself;
The engine intercooler;
Engine coolant piping (at least 14 ft of it);
Engine magneto;
Hand start crank point
Four engine mount points.
 
The coolant header tank may need moving/reshaping, as would the main oil tank. You'd also have to shift some of the anti-vibration mounts.
 
Its not exactly empty space down there.
 
This is like when Shooter claimed that you could fit MG151/15s into the nose of the Bf-109G. 
 
Shooter, I'm not debating you (its pointless, as you are incable of listening or learning), just providing the occassional rebuttal to some of your easier to disprove howlers.
 
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marat,jean       6/27/2013 5:14:41 AM
Another lie. This man has claimed to visit Dayton Ohio to measure B-17s.
 
Marat speaks:
 
As evidenced by his claims and the errors he made when challenged on that lie, his word is no good.
From your banning?
No, from my month long vacation to Europe and the western half of the US while driving to and from the East coast.


 
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