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Subject: F-35 vs. Eurofighter
IAFbestinworld    8/13/2004 11:49:07 PM
Lockheed says that besides the f-22, the f-35 will be the best air to air fighter in the future, is this true? Could an f-35 take a Eurofighter? My opinion says yes since f-35 contains more stealthy characteristics.
 
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   RE:f-35 vs. Eurofighter - Rule   8/16/2004 7:41:46 AM
The Super Hornet entered production in the early 90s, with the first operational aircraft being deployed in 1995. They first saw action in 2002, supporting OEF. And they are radically different aircraft, not comparable to the C /D models. The airframe was redesigned and made larger, thrust was improved, fuel capacity was improved, it was given all around stealth treatment, avionics were upgraded, weapons capacity were improved, and all onboard electronics were upgraded. It uses two GE-F414-400 turbofan engines rated at 44,000 pounds of thrust, and there are no "Night attack variant." Its PGM payload is and always was fully day/night capable, thanks to the ATFLIR forward-looking infrared system. All this growth wwas achieved ahead of schedule, under budget, and 1,000 pounds under weight. Super Hornet really was a remarkable success for the USN, after numerous failures during the 80s..
 
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Lasting Damage    RE:f-35 vs. Eurofighter - jjfs2    8/16/2004 11:36:10 AM
Only the F-35B has thrust vectoring so whats your point.
 
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Rule Britannia    RE:f-35 vs. Eurofighter - Rule   8/16/2004 12:10:12 PM
"The Super Hornet entered production in the early 90s, with the first operational aircraft being deployed in 1995. They first saw action in 2002, supporting OEF." That it what I have said, it only entered production seven years after the F/A-18C/D and is generationally behind the E/F2000. “And they are radically different aircraft, not comparable to the C /D models. The airframe was redesigned and made larger” I wouldn’t go as far as saying that, it is an upgrade of the night strike F/A-18C/D like what the Tornado GR.1 is to the GR.4, but it would not be considered a new aircraft class in it‘s own right due to it‘s obvious commonality with previous models. It has been modified with 34in fuselage extension to improve stability and as a result the wing area was enlarged to cope with the weight (regain lift) and a larger weapons capacity. “thrust was improved, fuel capacity was improved” As I said. “avionics were upgraded all onboard electronics were upgraded” Avionics and software have a 90 percent commonality with F/A-18C/Ds, although there are new features like new LCD multipurpose displays etc… “it was given all around stealth treatment” Not to my knowledge and the design has in fact been scaled up and the wing area enlarged with the same structural shape retained, the actual fuselage has not been ‘cleaned’ or given radar absorbent paint etc… “It uses two GE-F414-400 turbofan engines rated at 44,000 pounds of thrust” The F/A-18 programme, according to my source has the General Electric F404-GE-400 turbofan with reheat available, or more powerful GE-402’s enhancement from 1992. “and there are no "Night attack variant." The F/A 18C/D was considered the night attack variant, at least from the 139th aircraft delivered since 1989, the Super Hornet incorporates these features.
 
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RM-Nod    RE:f-35 vs. Eurofighter - Rule   8/16/2004 12:37:50 PM
The super hornet does have a lower thrust to weight ratio and a higher wing loading when compared to the EF2000. That is if the engine produeces 44,000lb of thrust, if it is lower then obviously the thrust to weight ratio will go down. I can't find any reliable info on the F-35 in any variants. I'm pretty sure that none of the aircraft have TVC in any form. The F-35B's TVC is only used for it's VTOL maneuvers, IIRC it has to open up a number of flaps in order to direct it's thrust downwards, which would be a sucicidle move if you were going beyond around 300 knots as the flaps would be prone to being ripped off and damaging the aircraft.
 
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RM-Nod    RE:f-35 vs. Eurofighter - Rule PS   8/16/2004 12:41:55 PM
I forgot to say that, althought the wing loading and thrust to wieght ratios give a good indication of maneuverability it doesn't tell the whole story. This is due to current and future generation aircraft being so unstable. Even with a higher wing loading and lower T/W ratio it is possible for an aircraft to out perform those with lower wing loadings and higher T/W ratios, because they are more unstable. Unfortunatley this information is not available to the public, and for that reason we can speculate all we want and make educated guesses but in the end they are still just speculations and guesses.
 
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Rule Britannia    RE:f-35 vs. Eurofighter - Rule   8/16/2004 12:43:36 PM
"That is if the engine produeces 44,000lb of thrust" According to General Electric, the F414-GE-400 produces only 22,000lbs Max. Power at Sea Level. http://www.geae.com/engines/military/f414/index.html
 
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RM-Nod    RE:f-35 vs. Eurofighter - Rule   8/16/2004 12:59:37 PM
Ah yes but there's 2 of them on the F-18E/F Either way the stats don't show it to out perform the E/F2000 and I doubt that the airframe is more unstable than the Typhoon.
 
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Rule Britannia    RE:f-35 vs. Eurofighter - Rule   8/16/2004 1:01:25 PM
"Ah yes but there's 2 of them on the F-18E/F" Oops.
 
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   RE:f-35 vs. Eurofighter - Rule   8/16/2004 2:30:40 PM
The commonalist is in parts and substructure. In fact, the F18E uses FEWER parts, over a larger fuselage, than the C/D models. This was intentional, and for obvious reasons: it keeps costs down. However, essentially the aircraft on top of these pieces is a brand new, state of the art machine. As for the engines, your source is wrong, it has always used the F414, model 400 variant designed specifically for the F/A18E. And the C/D versions did get a "night attack variant" of sorts, thanks to a block upgrade which incorporated the same infrared targeting pod mentioned above which itself was designed specifically for the E model..
 
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   RE:f-35 vs. Eurofighter - Rule   8/16/2004 2:31:56 PM
And the Super Hornet has TWO F114s, producing 22,000 lbs of thurst apiece, for a combined total of 44,000 lbs. Don't misquote me..
 
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