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Subject: Would a middle eastern 30 years war force China to be the army from the east in Armeggeddon?
Nanheyangrouchuan    10/27/2008 6:40:33 PM
"http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Global_Economy/JJ28Dj07.html" Front Page Greater China China Business South Asia Southeast Asia Japan Korea Middle East Central Asia World Economy Asian Economy IT World Book Reviews Letters Forum Oct 28, 2008 The world isn't flat, it's flattened By Spengler It wasn't the world that got flat, contrary to New York Times pundit Thomas Friedman, but the emerging markets that got flattened. Faddish conventional wisdom over the past few years held that American influence was fading as technology radiated to the far reaches of the world. When America's economy went into a ditch, though, the supposed economic superpowers of the future went flying, like children on skates holding onto the back of truck. The American consumer, it turns out, played Atlas to the global economy, taking the exports of Asia, so that Asia could buy the commodities of Russia, Latin America and Africa. Remove the American consumer, and Asian exports crash, taking commodity prices along with them. The financial crash exposes the fragility of large swaths of the world. The political consequences will be terrible. The worst of it is that America will not be around to moderate the melee, not if Democratic Senator Barack Obama is elected president, that is. Those who objected to America's role as world policeman will get what they wanted, but they won't like it: a religious war reaching from Lebanon to Pakistan, and Colombian-style narco-war spreading to Mexico and Brazil. The wave of American self-pity that may carry Obama to the White House stems, in turn, from a global crisis that has sunk a good deal of the developing world. Worst affected are the most populous Muslim countries, and Russia's "near abroad". Pakistan, Ukraine and Belarus are out of funds and have applied for help to the International Monetary Fund. Indonesia and Turkey face drastically increased borrowing and import costs. Iran's economy will implode with oil in the mid-US$60s. The table below shows the cost of default protection, a gauge of hard-currency borrowing costs, for some emerging markets. The numbers are somewhat arbitrary, reflecting a freeze on credit to emerging markets. Annual cost of five-year default protection in basis points above the London interbank offered rate (LIBOR): Country Basis Points Above LIBOR Argentina 3900 Ukraine 2750 Pakistan 2600 Venezuela 2260 Kazakhstan 1200 Indonesia 1200 Russia 1200 Turkey 900 Philippines 720 Egypt 720 That is, with LIBOR at 3.5%, the Russian government will pay roughly 15% for dollar funding, while Ukraine and Pakistan will pay about 30%, and Turkey about 11%. That does not accurately gauge the damage to their economies, though, for many of these countries depended on huge borrowings from short-term credit markets that now are frozen. The economic crisis buoyed Obama out of his post-convention slump and exposed the emptiness of the Republicans. But it also has crushed the aspirations of the most populous Muslim countries. Even before the financial crisis, Pakistan and Turkey had turned towards political Islam. Pakistan's intelligence service is providing support to the Taliban in Afghanistan, jeopardizing the Western position. The financial crisis will push Pakistan further towards radical Islam. Now this proclamation will be preached from every mosque from Tyre to Lahore: "The corrupt West tried to seduce you with consumerism. Now the poisoned gifts of the West are shown to be an illusion, and those of you who lusted after them are left only with your humiliation." Just what has the rest of the world done to challenge the economic hegemony of the United States? The commodities boom has evaporated in a matter of months, with most raw materials trading at half of their May 2008 peaks. Like the housing bubble in the United States, the commodities bubble turns out to have been a way for the capital of the West to invent profits where there were none to begin with. With the commodities bubble came a fad for investment in emerging market currencies, drawing hundreds of billions of dollars into high-yielding currencies like the Brazilian real, the Turkish lira and the South African rand. The most popular emerging market currencies have fallen by 30% to 50% from their peaks. The stock exchanges of the BRIC (Brazil-Russia-India-China) combination have fallen half again as far as the US stock market this year in dollar terms: Country Stock Market Change 2008 to Oct. 22 Brazil -59% Russia -72% India -62% China -62% US -40% No one in Asia, it appears, knows how to make money when American import demand shrinks, and when Asian growth falls, raw materials prices collapse. No one in Lati
 
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Claymore       11/1/2008 8:54:43 PM
Brazil -59%
Russia -72%
India -62%
China -62%
US -40%
 
Wow, I did not realize all the BRIC countries are hit that much harder than the US. So much for the "New Superpowers" rivaling the US. 
 
Especially in China's case where their economy is pegged 1/7 with the USA. Not sure how they will ever get ahead with just being America's factory.
 
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Necromancer    Claymore u never ceas to amaze me   11/7/2008 12:24:09 AM

Brazil -59%


Russia -72%


India -62%


China -62%



US -40%

 

Wow, I did not realize all the BRIC countries are hit that much harder than the US. So much for the "New Superpowers" rivaling the US. 

 

Especially in China's case where their economy is pegged 1/7 with the USA. Not sure how they will ever get ahead with just being America's factory.



The reason the BRIC markets crashed is because US institutional investors needed US dollars for the liquidity crisis. The BRIC stocks were artificially inflated, China and India have sound banks and the stock markets correctly reflect the P/E-
If CHina fell 60% and US fell 40% it translate to a mild shock in China but a disaster in US. US market cap is quite few trillion dollars 10+ ,China is 2 to 3 trillion dollars. Its like this if u lost 60cents from ur dollar coin stack u wouldn't complain but u lost 60%, but if u lost 40% of 100000 dollars it would obviously be more disastorous. Jeesh.
 
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YelliChink       11/7/2008 11:32:55 AM
Chinese banks are all commie-owned. It doesn't mean that they are sound, which they aren't. Commies will make the banks running or die trying.
 
Chinese stock market is rigged. Unless you have insider trading information, you'd better stay away from it.

 
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Necromancer       11/9/2008 9:04:00 PM

Chinese banks are all commie-owned. It doesn't mean that they are sound, which they aren't. Commies will make the banks running or die trying.

 

Chinese stock market is rigged. Unless you have insider trading information, you'd better stay away from it.





Yellichink, a Chinese bank is safer than a US bank as off October 2008. The West was lost on precisely the same date. What separated USA , Great Britain etc from China was confidence and trust in the economic system. It simply doesn't exist any longer. I wrote this in 2006 saying the subprime crisis would raise China on par withe Western economies. Strictly neutrally speaking- I would worry personally more about putting my money in US banks as opposed to state Chinese or India banks. In fact in India where u have both options private or state people moved their savings to state banks enduring 2 hour lines as art of the lousy service at state banks but then they had more confidence in the state banks. Poor Obama, he is being accused of socialism when the 700 billion bailout and mess started with his predessecors. Its much worse than u think.
 
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Nanheyangrouchuan       11/9/2008 10:42:38 PM




Chinese banks are all commie-owned. It doesn't mean that they are sound, which they aren't. Commies will make the banks running or die trying.



 



Chinese stock market is rigged. Unless you have insider trading information, you'd better stay away from it.













Yellichink, a Chinese bank is safer than a US bank as off October 2008. The West was lost on precisely the same date. What separated USA , Great Britain etc from China was confidence and trust in the economic system. It simply doesn't exist any longer. I wrote this in 2006 saying the subprime crisis would raise China on par withe Western economies. Strictly neutrally speaking- I would worry personally more about putting my money in US banks as opposed to state Chinese or India banks. In fact in India where u have both options private or state people moved their savings to state banks enduring 2 hour lines as art of the lousy service at state banks but then they had more confidence in the state banks. Poor Obama, he is being accused of socialism when the 700 billion bailout and mess started with his predessecors. Its much worse than u think.


A Chinese bank is smoke and mirrors.  Their only pillar of stability is that fact that the big 4 banks are all completely state owned and backed by the People's BOC.  Not only that, but China's very banking system violates the WTO because the PBOC does not charge interest to the big 4 banks when they need cash infusions.
 
China's crisis is hardly on par with the West's despite the stock market fall, and China's vaunted cash reserves are in more trouble than Chinese people can understand because China owned alot of AIG and Bear Stearns paper.
 
 Look at how bad China's stock market has performed, no one believes Chinese stocks or Chinese banks.  There is no FDIC in China.
 
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