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Subject: Aster Chases Aegis And Patriot
SYSOP    12/2/2010 5:03:25 AM
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heraldabc    Does anyone know why I laugh at thios article?    1/14/2011 1:38:17 AM
Also the numbers claimed for performance parameters are wildly optimistic and:as for SAMP-T
Italy has poured its money into MEADS not ASTER.
They know a crap missile when they see one.
Another fail article.

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StobieWan       2/25/2011 7:18:31 AM
MEADS is (or was) a US/Italian colab - it's now dead as an internation project since the US and Germany pulled out.

Italy's pursuing MEADS hasn't much to do with Aster performance I suspect, more of an interest in a national project.


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heraldabc       2/25/2011 2:28:05 PM
Libya blew up.
They want a SAM that WORKS.  
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StobieWan       2/26/2011 7:38:23 AM

MEADS isn't it then - their quickest route right now is to re-role the existing SAMP-T batteries the Army bought with Aster block 1, which I believe just tested successfully against a simulated target of about the 600km range missiles that Italy might fear most. MEADS uses the PAC-3 missile,so two issues there, firstly, the system isn't available and may well simply cease to exist as costs spiral and the Italian budget falls flat on it's face. Secondly nothing in the Libyan arsenal can *reach* Italy with a gas warhead, or am I missing something here? 

And why would Libya start targetting civilians in Italy? As long as we (the West) take the smart route and don't go in on the ground, Libya will sort itself out. Firing gas warheads at Italy or any place like it would be the kiss of death for either the regime or ruling party, whoever's finger was on the trigger. I don't buy it as a requirement and if I did, the response will come too late - MEADS is four or five years away from ISD, even if it makes it that far. The US Army don't want it, Germany has declined to proceed without US involvement, leaving the cash strapped Italians to complete the task, possibly with Lockmart involvement  if Lockmart think they can market the results later.

MEADS predates this all by decades. Also, why do you like MEADS over SAMP-T? MEADS is a Lockmart/MDBA/MDBA Italy project - you hate Lockmart with a passion, MDBA is 30% Thales, nuff said so apart from an element of Finnmeccia there, surely MEADS is the sort of thing you'd not be keen on?

MEADS is an open architecture air defence system - it's mated with PAC-3 but effectively it could be plugged into anything you want - Germany were talking about sticking IRIS-T in the mix as another layer. Presumably you could mix in SLAMRAAM and CAMM with SM3 as a true theatre BMD? Where do you think the future of MEADS lies?

Libya blew up.



They want a SAM that WORKS.  

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StobieWan       2/26/2011 7:47:35 AM
From the link and I think you're talking page 8

"ALTBMD is due to reach an initial operational
capability in 2012, while the full spectrum of
capabilities should be available by 2017. In its
final configuration, the NATO theatre missile
defence programme will be also provided with
land-based MEADS missiles from the US,
Germany and Italy; F-124 frigates and EURO
HAWK UAS from Germany; SAMP/T missiles
and TPS 77 sensors from Italy; AEGIS Standard
Missile-3 systems, AN/TPY 2 radar and landbased THAAD shooters from the US; landbased PAC-2 missiles from Greece; landbased FADR/DADR sensors from Poland; landbased PAC-2 and F-100 frigates from Spain.
Although the interim capability is a small first
step towards the integration of theatre ballistic
missile defence operations into the future
NATO air C2 systems, it will begin that process
and provide a platform for future steps.
?Whenever people talk about expanding missile
defence to protect allied countries, the
ALTBMD programme is defined as the basic
architecture on which to build it,?

Doesn't say a bad word about SAMP-T, and references it several times, mentions MEADS twice. I'm not getting your point here?




Also the numbers claimed for performance parameters are wildly optimistic and:as for SAMP-T



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heraldabc       2/26/2011 3:09:39 PM
Aster actually MISSED, gentlemen in that so-called  'successful'  test.

As for Libya, rhe Italians did not expect this arc of color revolutions this quick, nor the Chicago Thug and his crowd to totally screw everything up this quickly. .
Right now if I were Italy (or Europe in general would buy STANDARD SM-3 and SM-6.
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C2    On a different note.   2/27/2011 11:18:41 AM
I have to say herald, i enjoy reading the material that you post on these forums, they are quite often technical and very informative, if you ever feel like starting your own 'dirty little links' i would certainly be a reader.
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Blue Apple       2/28/2011 9:23:22 AM
"Italy has poured its money into MEADS not ASTER."
Poured indeed. Down the drain.
"Aster actually MISSED, gentlemen in that so-called  'successful'  test."
And I suppose we have to take your word for this?
Care to give us some details? Time, place, what type of ballistic payload was used to simulate the 600km-class missile, delivery means, miss distance...
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heraldabc       2/28/2011 10:06:07 AM
One short in the basket, the other long, kumquat. Explosions did not equal kills of the missile targets (SCUD and Exoxcet emulators) at all.   
At least this time they didn't wipe out a goatherd's work-shed and call THAT a success.
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Privateer       2/28/2011 11:01:45 AM
"(...) At least this time they didn't wipe out a goatherd's work-shed and call THAT a success (...)."
This is one of the most stupid answers I've ever read. Seriously, if you don't have any valuable information about those Aster ABM tests to add to your posts, why don't you just sit back and keep quiet.
And to accuse somebody else about being a waste of bandwidth. Sheesh..." alt="" />
Defense Update article about this test:
"(...) France carried out the first ballistic missile intercept with the SAMP/T Surface-to-Air Medium Range missile system last month; however, the news release about the test was delayed by one month. Considered an important milestone in the development of European missile defense capability, the test was conducted on 18 October 2010 at the DGA Missile Launch Test Centre (CELM) in Biscarosse in southwest France. (...) According to the manufacturers, during the test the systems successfully performed all the intercept phases, from target detection and designation and handoff to the fire control module, target acquisition by the ARABEL radar, computation of engagement sequence and firing decision. The target was intercepted at the intended range (...) According to the DGA, the target used for the firing was representative of a medium-range ballistic missile. This firing deployed the Aster 30 Block 1 missile variant developed for the French Air Force?s ?Mamba? medium range air defense system and optimized for the interception of aerial as well as ballistic threats (...)."
Pretty meager info.
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