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Subject: India to limit missile program to aid US nuclear deal
Softwar    6/18/2007 12:43:16 PM
http://in.news.yahoo.com/070618/210/6h403.html Report: India to limit missile program to aid US nuclear deal Monday June 18, 07:35 PM India will limit its ballistic missile program to medium-range rockets in a bid to seal a nuclear cooperation deal with the United States, news reports said Monday. India has decided not to develop missiles with a range over 5,000 kilometers (3,100 miles) as a goodwill gesture toward the U.S., the CNN-IBN news channel reported, citing unidentified government officials. The Indian Foreign Ministry and the U.S. Embassy in New Delhi declined to comment on the report. The proposed nuclear deal, seen as the cornerstone of an emerging partnership between the two countries, has been stalled in recent months. One of the biggest sticking points has been American reluctance to allow India to reprocess spent atomic fuel because of fears it would spark a nuclear arms race in Asia by allowing India to use extra nuclear fuel which the deal would provide to free up its domestic uranium for weapons. Reprocessing fuel is a key step in making weapons-grade nuclear material. The report said the move to limit missile range was intended to reassure the U.S. of India's peaceful intentions. In April, India successfully test-fired the Agni 3, a new missile capable of carrying nuclear warheads across much of Asia and the Middle East. India's current missiles are mostly intended for confronting neighboring archrival Pakistan. However, the Agni 3, India's longest-range missile, is designed to reach 3,000 kilometers (1,900 miles) _ putting China's major cities well into range, as well as targets deep in the Middle East. The nuclear deal, agreed to by the two countries' leaders in July 2005, would let the U.S. provide nuclear fuel and know-how to India in exchange for safeguards and U.N. inspections at India's 14 civilian nuclear plants. Eight military plants would remain off-limits.
 
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iSoldier    Who is producing the 5000 Km definition of IRBM?   6/18/2007 1:00:26 PM
As per my understanding ICBMs are defined as 6000+ Km range ballistic missiles, so I am curious as to the source of capping IRBMs at 5000 Km rather than 5999 Km. If ballistic missiles are anything like cars, the extra-range (from perceived threats) represents more a margin of safety and controllability - sort of like cars capable of going 160 mph in countries where the speed-limits are 65 or 70 mph.
 
Anyway the Indian interests will probably be offset not just by the nuclear-deal, but by the increased cooperation with NASA in the space agreements. I believe India will be sending a mapping and scanning satellite to moon shortly to act as a pioneer/explorer for a subsequent American mineral-study satellite. The Indian satellite wont make land-fall, but remin in orbit. The American satellite coming later will actually make landfall.
 
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Softwar       6/18/2007 1:59:20 PM

As per my understanding ICBMs are defined as 6000+ Km range ballistic missiles, so I am curious as to the source of capping IRBMs at 5000 Km rather than 5999 Km. If ballistic missiles are anything like cars, the extra-range (from perceived threats) represents more a margin of safety and controllability - sort of like cars capable of going 160 mph in countries where the speed-limits are 65 or 70 mph.

 

Anyway the Indian interests will probably be offset not just by the nuclear-deal, but by the increased cooperation with NASA in the space agreements. I believe India will be sending a mapping and scanning satellite to moon shortly to act as a pioneer/explorer for a subsequent American mineral-study satellite. The Indian satellite wont make land-fall, but remin in orbit. The American satellite coming later will actually make landfall.


Since India can orbit a satellite and as you noted will be sending a moon probe out shortly - striking targets anywhere on Earth is less of a technical issue than a political one.  I'm not sure why the 5000 km limit.  Perhaps some arbitrary number selected by a bureacrat or journalist.
 
I am not sure how well this (reported) offer will go over but it is an honest effort.  I am sure it will not be greeted with joy inside Beijing - but the PLA warlords have their own agenda.
 
Your point is well put - I hope the joint India/US space mission is a leading indicator of more and better to follow.  The fact is that we can jointly share technology and information because we not only know the capability of the other but we also understand the intentions.  Both nations can contribute valuable technical data though these joint ventures and from them - form lasting partnerships that could lead to India/US moon and mars manned missions. 
 
The joint space missions with Russia served to reduce tensions between Moscow and Washington.  Joint missions with India - a democracy - should lead to much better results.
 
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Herc the Merc    Sloppy reporting again softwar   6/18/2007 2:39:46 PM
Home > News > PTI

No move to cap long-range missiles: Govt

June 18, 2007 21:11 IST

The government on Monday made it clear that there was no move to cap the range and reach of the country's surface-to-surface missiles.

"There are no instructions from the government to defence scientists on missile development programme," Defence Ministry spokesman said, reacting to reports that India had decided to cap the range of long-range missiles to only 5,000 km distance.

"The missile programme is going on as per security requirements of the country," he said.

The government clarification comes as Defence Research and Development Organisation missile scientists are awaiting government clearance on development and testing of longer range missiles of AGNI-III versions.

Earlier this year, India successfully test-fired its 3,000 km range nuclear capable AGNI-III missiles, with DRDO scientists expressing confidence that 'a much longer range missile could be developed'.
__________________________________
>>
 
Also India has a history from backtracking on its commitments as amply evidenced by using the gifted Canadian technology to make a N-bomb and test it in 1974. Also the focus will be on nuke subs, and placating US defense experts that the nukes wouldn't be pointed at Western Europe and US. The "hope" is India will be anti-China, in 6000 years of history India and China have gone to war only once while Europe and US have had far more confrontations with India. Ur theory is wrong -in the long run India will have ICBMS pointed at everyone. You better understand Indian aims--its global domination at any cost. INdia is now emerging as a power, resource hungry capitalist state dominated by oligarchs. Have fun.
 
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iSoldier       6/18/2007 2:47:14 PM


Since India can orbit a satellite and as you noted will be sending a moon probe out shortly - striking targets anywhere on Earth is less of a technical issue than a political one.  I'm not sure why the 5000 km limit.  Perhaps some arbitrary number selected by a bureacrat or journalist.

 
I am not sure how well this (reported) offer will go over but it is an honest effort.  I am sure it will not be greeted with joy inside Beijing - but the PLA warlords have their own agenda.

 



Shushhhhh.... you are saying that-which-must-not-be-said.
 
Limiting oneself, and being limited by others, to IRBMs is a face-saving gesture all around. India can reiterate its comittment to minimum credible deterrence gainst its enemies. The US can claim some moral progress in the arms-control department. Even our mutual "friends" can rest a bit easier in the knowledge that under th present set-up it will always take at least some time before weaponization, buying them response time - as opposed to a scenarion where ICBMs are already ready. You don't want to break others' supersitions and taboos, haven't you had your cultural sensitivity classes?

 
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iSoldier       6/18/2007 2:53:04 PM
Softwar,
 
 
 
It appears you have already stepped on the Sacred Bull's (or is it Holy Lizard's) tail! Here comes the witch-doctor brandishing "6000 years of history" of two nation-states formed in 1947 and 1949 respectively
 
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Softwar       6/18/2007 3:45:59 PM

Home > News > PTI

No move to cap long-range missiles: Govt

June 18, 2007 21:11 IST



The government on Monday made it clear that there was no move to cap the range and reach of the country's surface-to-surface missiles.


"There are no instructions from the government to defence scientists on missile development programme," Defence Ministry spokesman said, reacting to reports that India had decided to cap the range of long-range missiles to only 5,000 km distance.


"The missile programme is going on as per security requirements of the country," he said.


The government clarification comes as Defence Research and Development Organisation missile scientists are awaiting government clearance on development and testing of longer range missiles of AGNI-III versions.


Earlier this year, India successfully test-fired its 3,000 km range nuclear capable AGNI-III missiles, with DRDO scientists expressing confidence that 'a much longer range missile could be developed'.

__________________________________

>>
 

Also India has a history from backtracking on its commitments as amply evidenced by using the gifted Canadian technology to make a N-bomb and test it in 1974. Also the focus will be on nuke subs, and placating US defense experts that the nukes wouldn't be pointed at Western Europe and US. The "hope" is India will be anti-China, in 6000 years of history India and China have gone to war only once while Europe and US have had far more confrontations with India. Ur theory is wrong -in the long run India will have ICBMS pointed at everyone. You better understand Indian aims--its global domination at any cost. INdia is now emerging as a power, resource hungry capitalist state dominated by oligarchs. Have fun.



Read it and weep Bay Boy.  The article you posted states "The missile programme is going on as per security requirements of the country".  Funny statement - not - Yeah sure we are developing an ICBM.  It also noted that the program officials were "waiting" for the go ahead to begin long range missile work.  Certainly sounds like something is on hold. 
 
Now here are two more articles posted on the same subject....
 

By AP
Monday June 18, 07:35 PM

CNN-IBN
Posted Monday , June 18, 2007 at 20:50
Updated Monday , June 18, 2007 at 23:21
 
So - all we see right now are missiles pointed at Beijing and Islamabad.  The same two nations that have pointed missiles at India for the last 20 years.  Security being what it is ... no need to point missiles when they are needed elsewhere.  So aiming at Pakistan and China makes perfect sense.
 
I have no theory about where and when.  I only evaluate capability and intentions.  Global domination?  Try looking at your pet Myth and say that about the PRC.  Then again, you won't because Myth is the only girl that will speak to you.
 
All you have are WAGs.  So I suggest you take your WAG and GFY.  Keep in mind - several people here have posted the very same comment to you.  Bugger off.  Wave it somewhere else liar.  You have no contacts in India except a few trolls on blog listings.  You have no credibility here because you lie about your profession and play games of grand schemes.  Go smoke your hemp t-shirt and please - if you must post - wait till the buzz wears off.
 
 
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Nanheyangrouchuan       6/18/2007 5:26:03 PM
Sounds like the Pro-China pillow biters in  DC have mucked up this deal.  India made clear who was under the thumb of the new Agni III and apparently the boss pigs in Beijing called up their corporate dogs to push this "blockade" through. 



 
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blitZ       6/19/2007 6:06:12 AM
If true, this is the most disgusting news i have heard from India in a long time. So what next? Uncle says drown your fighter planes in the Indian Ocean and we do it ? Shut down your tanks and India is supposed to oblige ? This is freakin ridiculous.

India is on the verge of becoming an American 'Vassal' state. Disgusting indeed. Why should India cap it's missile range ? give me one good reason ? Does the US not have missiles destined for New Delhi and Mumbai even as we speak?
What is the guarentee that Eurabians and the US will not train their missiles at India in the future. We are supposed to not throw away money at nuclear weapons, because America, with its few thousand nuclear weapons says its morally wrong. wow, Just ridiculous!!

 
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displacedjim       6/19/2007 8:03:10 AM

Why should India cap it's missile range ? give me one good reason ?

I don't follow India in great detail, but I would suggest people consider the following when they see discussions of range limits on Indian ballistic missiles:  For India to voluntarily Limit" their range to 5000km would be similar to North Korea limiting theirs to 8000km, or Iran limiting theirs to 4000km or America limiting ours to 15000km, etc.  A limit that wasn't goning to be achieved any year soon anyway isn't really much of a limit, is it?

 
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iSoldier       6/19/2007 8:17:53 AM



Why should India cap it's missile range ? give me one good reason ?


I don't follow India in great detail, but I would suggest people consider the following when they see discussions of range limits on Indian ballistic missiles:  For India to voluntarily Limit" their range to 5000km would be similar to North Korea limiting theirs to 8000km, or Iran limiting theirs to 4000km or America limiting ours to 15000km, etc.  A limit that wasn't goning to be achieved any year soon anyway isn't really much of a limit, is it?




 
Ah, but it (i.e. a 5000 km range ballistic missile) is technically achievable for India atleast... in matter of months rather than years. It is of course politically, financially and x-factorally undesirable. So it is a limit. India, unlike North Korea, Iran or America, does take these factors into accout when declaring the limits (Ex. The political and financial based decision not to weaponize nuclear-weapons - especially thermobarics - between 1974 and 1998). North Koreans have no political limits, Iran has few political limits and a smaller financial limit, America has relatively no financial limit.
 
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