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Subject: Fixing Canada's military
bunglefoot    12/5/2003 1:08:35 PM
My thoughts on the matter: For starters, Chretien is out. Phase one completed. I think the first think that needs to be done, is an across the board pay raise for people in our military. I am a fourth year university student in a profession that the CF literally cannot get enough of (and will never, at this rate). I would join but I make more money in 4 hours than I would in a couple of days as a recruit. (Or even a cpl for that matter.) I am not the only one in this boat, I would join but I honestly cannot afford to, the military pays less than minimum wage for new recruits. Raising pay would attract more, and better people that our military needs. Also, there needs to be legislation passed that guarantees our soldiers will have their day-jobs guaranteed if they are called away for their military duties. (Another must if I personally were to join.) Secondly, more care needs to be given to soldiers suffering from psychological fatigue from being away from their homes and families serving our country. Education programs in the military itself would help. (To those who are not aware of what I specifically am referring to, see post traumatic stress in canada's military on the net.) Third, increase the training budget. Our soldiers are some of if not the best trained in the world, increase the gap. Fourth, purchase modern state of the art equipment to furnish our military, not refurbished junk cast-off from some other cuontry. I agree with the policy that anything used by the canadian military must be built in Canada (or as it stands, refurbished.. stupid subs). Fifth, while furnishing our troops with state of the art equipment for when they need it, continue to train them with a minimal of equipment and force them to scrounge. (Of course, while maintaining their familiarity with the new stuff.) This is -definately- a good thing for any military, as in times of war the ability to make do with what you have can be the difference between victory and annihilation. This is something we are masters at already with our tanks, sea kings, and other assorted flotsam, (see Boeing buying old canadian military planes to research how the CF managed to keep them operating for far past their projected lifetimes.), and losing this edge would be a shame. Sixth: Legislate a pile of roadblocks that must be passed in order for any new ruling party to reduce CF funding. This will help keep any ruling party from unilaterally decided to chop the military to give more money to chretiens golfcourse or whatnot. Seventh, make sure that any purchases made (ie: strykers) do not affect the capability of our forces UNLESS sufficient research and thought has gone into it. It pisses me off to no end that we are buying 66 strykers with armour incapable of defeating even the most basic weaponry that can be scrounged up by any half competant terrorist or militant, to replace 100 some odd tanks. WITHOUT any sort of policy review!!! GRRRRR Thoughts welcome! Please post!
 
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flanker    RE:Fixing Canada's military   12/9/2003 8:02:18 AM
If money is your primary concern then the military is probably not where you should be. That being said, the pay is not that bad. A university graduate (I assume you are an engineering student) has a starting salary of between $45,000 to $50,000 plus the enlistment bonus of 40,000. This bonus is enough for most people to pay off their university debts. After 12 years, I make $78,000. Not a bad salary in most parts of the country. This does not take into account environmental allowances. In addition, CF members frequently do post-grad on full salary (probably in the 70,000 to 80,000 range at the time). How many masters students do you know who can say that. Being in the military is not about the money (unless your unemployed or broke). The reason engineers and technicians are desperately needed is that they get hired away by industry due to their superior training and experience. Many of these are now returning as they discover that the grass is not always greener on the other side. Why is this? The people you work with. Life in the military creates friendship and memories that will never fade, something that can be said about few jobs. Not to many people dream about days past as a project engineer or program manager at a place like Bombardier or Lockheed Martin Not many of these other jobs will get you around the world like the military. Admittedly its not always to the greatest locations but even these are experiences few others will have. Personally, I have travelled to UK (x5), Scotland (x2), Spain, Italy (x3), Germany, Iceland (x18), NWT (before it split in two), all across Canada, all over the US including Hawaii (x2). When I go back flying next year, I will be travelling places like Japan, Alaska, S Korea, Australia, NZ. All this is on CF coin. If even after all this money is still the primary concern, then you shouldn't join. It's the attitude that money is the most important thing that turns the military from a life to just another job and that attitude is contagious.
 
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bunglefoot    RE:Fixing Canada's military   12/13/2003 3:21:46 PM
I agree with 99% of what you said. The opportunities for travel in the CF are amazing, and being in the military is not about the money for most people. However, for people like me who would like to do their part for their country and be ready in case the proverbial feces hits the rotating air circulation unit (I'm talking in the 2-4 year range), but not go career, then money is a big issue. I would join the reserves but I literally cannot afford to. Also, I would imagine the vast majority of people in the CF do not have university degrees, and as such the pay rates you are talking about are for the most part out of reach. I am personally of the opinion that a person in the military should be afforded a decent standard of living for themselves and for their families (not that they arent afforded this in Canada), but also a -little- something extra. Most of the non monetary benefits of military life do not extend to family members, and IMHO it would be nice if they were compensated better for time away etc. But thats mostly another issue. Bottom line is I think that increasing pay increases recruiting, which is something the CF is having trouble with.
 
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tamtam    RE:Fixing Canada's military   12/20/2003 10:02:53 AM
Really I'm guessing you must have had a Canadian girlfriend you dumped you and now you are just a little bitter. Might I ask where you are from that is so much better than Canada. Obviously your school systems aren't better since your writing is horrible. Your one trip to Toronto doesn't make you an expert on Canada's military, history or geography.
 
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tamtam    RE:Fixing Canada's military   12/20/2003 10:10:52 AM
Looking at some of your other posts and your handle, you seem to be trying to pass yourself off as Canadian and now you seem to be trying to trash everything about it. This leads me to believe you are not Canadian and just trying to stir things up. If you want to be a troll, go somewhere else.
 
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capitalist72    RE:Fixing Canada's military   12/20/2003 11:43:14 AM
I've been all over the first world, and decided to choose Canada as the place to make my home base from which to do business from. My experience has been very positive: concientious, efficient government, very multicultural environment, friendly and large-hearted people, good business environment, pleasant "change of scenery" with the Francophone parts of the country, less hostility and more opportunity for an "outsider" than most of Europe, less money than the US, but a higher quality of life by my standards of judgement......Canada is a fine country with a bright future. "there is no reason to go to canada it offers nothing and has nothing to see or want u can go anywhere else in the first world countries and get twice as much as canada can offe"
 
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Massive    RE:Fixing Canada's military - bungle   12/27/2003 10:18:16 AM
The other benefit of military (in my case public) service is just that - service. Despite the opportunity to earn a lot more money in the private sector there are a lot of people who work with me and, I believe, in the military who love their jobs and part of that love is the knowledge that they are doing what they do for the good of all. Sometimes I think this is forgotten and that that is a pity.
 
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evlstu    RE:Fixing Canada's military   1/3/2004 12:41:05 AM
After reading the last posting I have one question: Why do so many of our "allies" want the USA to fight their battles for them and save their butts when they get in trouble; yet on the other hand when the USA asks for support these same people send only insults?
 
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bunglefoot    RE:Fixing Canada's military   1/6/2004 2:41:46 PM
It seems most people think that military service is it's own reward and that a pay increase is out of the question. Fine I suppose, I disagree but whatever. As for Canada's military, the whole problem is that it is -not- sufficient to deal with any threat likely to arise today. The Canadian military is overstretched even with the relatively minor commitments it undertakes now, and is overdue for a general overhaul. One of the things that I believe is necessary is a general increase in size (on the order of 20-40 percent size increase, but the actual number is debatable) as well as the purchase of modern equipment --where necessary--. Ie: tanks, helicopters, iltis replacement, and a few other things that slip my mind at the moment. There is a bunch of things the Canadian military has that are extremely good and don't need to be replaced and in fact are state of the art. (I like our use of the C.G. recoilless rifle for one and the ADATS system mounted on our old APC's to vastly extend their usefulness.)
 
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