Military History | How To Make War | Wars Around the World Rules of Use How to Behave on an Internet Forum
United States Discussion Board
   Return to Topic Page
Subject: As China and India circle each other like cage fighters, the question is what will Uncle Sam do?
Zhang Fei    11/14/2009 9:30:55 PM
From Japan Times:
The India-China relationship has entered choppy waters due to a perceptible hardening in the Chinese stance. Anti-India rhetoric in the state-run Chinese media has intensified, even as China has stepped up military pressure along the disputed Himalayan frontier through cross-border incursions. Beijing also has resurrected its long-dormant claim to the northeastern Indian state of Arunachal Pradesh, nearly three times as large as Taiwan. The more muscular Chinese stance clearly is tied to the new U.S.-India strategic partnership, symbolized by the nuclear deal and deepening military cooperation. As President George W. Bush declared in his valedictory speech, "We opened a new historic and strategic partnership with India." The Obama administration, although committed to promoting that strategic partnership, has been reluctant to take New Delhi's side in any of its disputes with Beijing. This has emboldened China to up the ante against India, with the Chinese Foreign Ministry employing language like "we demand" in a recent statement that labeled the Indian prime minister's visit to Arunachal Pradesh a "disturbance." New Delhi has hit back by permitting the Dalai Lama to tour Arunachal Pradesh and announcing an end to the practice of letting Chinese companies bring thousands of workers from China to work on projects in India. And in a public riposte to Beijing's raising of objections to multilateral funding of any project in Arunachal, India has asked China to cease its infrastructure and military projects in another disputed region — Pakistan-held Kashmir. The present pattern of border provocations, new force deployments and mutual recriminations is redolent of the situation that prevailed 47 years ago when China routed the unprepared Indian military in a surprise two-front aggression. Today, amid rising tensions, the danger of border skirmishes, if not a limited war, looks real. Such tensions have been rising since 2006. Until 2005, China actually was eschewing anti-India rhetoric and pursuing a policy of active engagement with India, even as it continued to expand its strategic space in southern Asia, to New Delhi's detriment. In fact, when Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao visited India in April 2005, the two countries unveiled six broad principles to help settle their festering border dispute. But after the Indo-U.S. defense-framework accord and nuclear deal were unveiled in quick succession in subsequent months, the mood in Beijing perceptibly changed. That gave rise to a pattern that now has become commonplace: Chinese newspapers, individual bloggers, security think tanks and even officially blessed Web sites ratcheting up an "India threat" scenario. A U.S.-India military alliance has always been a strategic nightmare for the Chinese, and the ballyhooed Indo-U.S. global strategic partnership triggered alarm bells in Beijing. The partnership, though, falls short of a formal military alliance. Still, the high-pitched Indian and American rhetoric that the new partnership represented a tectonic shift in geopolitical alignments apparently made Chinese policymakers believe that India was being groomed as a new Japan or Australia to America — a perception reinforced by subsequent arrangements and Indian orders for U.S. arms worth $3.5 billion in just the past year. Clearly, New Delhi failed to foresee that its rush to forge close strategic bonds with Washington could provoke greater Chinese pressure and that, in such a situation, the U.S. actually would offer little comfort. Consequently, India finds itself in a spot today. For one, Beijing calculatedly has sought to pressure India on multiple fronts — military, diplomatic and multilateral. For another, the U.S. — far from coming to India's support — has shied away from even cautioning Beijing against any attempt to forcibly change the territorial status quo. Indeed, on a host of issues — from the Dalai Lama to the Arunachal dispute — Washington has chosen not to antagonize Beijing. That, in effect, has left India on its own. The spectacle of the president of the most powerful country in the world seeking to curry favor with a rights-abusing China by shunning the Dalai Lama during the Tibetan leader's Washington visit cannot but embolden the Chinese leadership to step up pressure on India, the seat of the Tibetan government in exile. U.S. President Barack Obama also has signaled that America's strategic relationship with India will not be at the expense of the fast-growing U.S. ties with Beijing. The Obama team, after reviewing the Bush-era arrangements, now intends to abjure elements in its ties with New Delhi that could rile China, including any joint military drill in Arunachal or a 2007-style naval exercise involving the U.S., India, Australia, Japan and Singapore. Even trilateral U.S. naval maneuvers with India and Japan are being a
 
Quote    Reply

Show Only Poster Name and Title     Newest to Oldest
Le Zookeeper    ZF   11/14/2009 9:37:21 PM
US bilateral training with India is at an all time high, including high altitude training and Stryker corps in India recently with specific antiChina exercises. The US government sided with INdia regarding votes in Arunachal Pradesh and the Dalai Lamas visit to Tawang. I would not worry. The real issue is Tibet after the olympics is increasingly unstable and Chinese economy is faltering. Its Chinese weakness that is causing the current issues. I would not worry about it. China cannot afford any major 1962 type military action -its China falling apart due to the economic crisis thats the issue (and oh the US with it- double dip recession coming). As I call it the Sino-US dance of doom.
 
Quote    Reply

verysmart1    tweedly dee and tweedle DUMB   12/29/2009 8:40:51 AM
honestly.. china Vs india.. is a GREAT idea..
 
the rest of the world can sit back with popcorn and watch the fireworks.. because in all honesty both countries need to shed some pounds.
 
i mean how DARE either country permit itself to harbor over 1 billion human beings ??? that's 2 billian chinese and indian craps flushed into the oceans daily.. and 2 billion mouths to feed in just TWO countries.. it's outlandish that some countries complain about being disadvantaged and then have no solution to the massive cronic overpopulation problems which CAUSE all the starvation and hunger.. isn't it obvious ???
 
China built up large numbers of mostly males at a time of political unease.. the million man army fear campaign of the old war eras.. as for India.. i have no idea how it got it's billion but DAMN !!!
 
European population is in decline.. and if it didnt take in so many gympsies, many from india over the years, it would have a very sustainable population, which is also the most productive per capital on the planet. Sure Europe is not without it's faults, but it has been progressive for the planets sake.
 
The notion that war needs to ravage Europe yet again is completely unsubstantiated. China's and India's needs to develop are unmitigated by need and are unwarranted on all counts because the planet should not sustain such large populations which will only redouble with modernisation. THEN WHAT ???
 
Europe becomes THE most vulnerable place to be. Vulnerable because it is being a RESPONSIBLE global citizen, it has made it's carbon reductions as per Kyoto, it is leading the world in new technologies which reduce pollution and global warming, its populations are declinging and it has not started a single war since WW2 ended it has mearly acted as part of global forces when required but never acted alone.
 
Imagine if Europe decided to have 3 billion people.. and play those cards .. where would the world end up ????
 
i think it much wiser that china and india reflect on their own situations and their own flawed philosophies of their own relgiious leaders and historical figures and perhaps accept that they are making some hardcore mistakes which impreil the entire planet.
 
Solutions dreamt up by leaders seeking glory for China and India.. will result in the most likley anhiliation of both china and india period.
 
completely off the map.. there is one solution..
 
STOP HAVING BABIES !!!!!!!!!!
 
you lack the land for so many people.. and the rest of the world should not have ot suffer for that.
 
 
 
 
 
Quote    Reply

Nanheyangrouchuan       12/29/2009 11:39:43 AM
As I've said before, Asia is pretty much a redo of Europe before WW1 but with so much more to lose.
 
India is stacking troops on their border and if Beijing thinks 50 year old caves are enough to protect their people against modern warheads they are sadly mistaken.
 
This war is a long time coming and it isn't really over a border as much as it is over a temple and water (the Brahmaputra is big and fresh in that part of India, China has no fresh water left). 
 
China would have been better off going after Taiwan, it is marginally winnable with acceptable losses to its new navy and airforce.  India has nukes, probably has tacit support from Russia (including intel), is an ally of Isreal and the US military has an "advisory" role in India. 
 
And if the PLA loses in India, the Tibetan and Uyghur guerillas will pounce, while the Han gov't and population is utterly humiliated and demoralized.
 
Quote    Reply

Photon       1/9/2010 4:29:30 PM
My playbook against China would involve ....
 
1.  Pretend  'business as usual'.  Do not show your hands prematurely.  Wait for the other guy to stumble.
 
2.  The time to change the game is when China runs into major domestic turmoil and there is a chance that Beijing may lose traction.
 
3.  If India is on the same boat as the US, then provoke China by recognition of the Dalai Lama and Tibet as an independent country which is under Chinese occupation.  Recognizing Taiwan as 'Republic of Taiwan' would work as well, but recognition of Tibet would be far more effective in pissing off Beijing.
 
4.  The reason such provocation should be set aside until China is in a deep domestic crap is to induce Beijing to panic.  Tempt Beijing to seek foreign adventures as means of diverting Chinese attention away from domestic troubles.  As always, an agitated enemy is much less formidable than a cool-headed one.
 
5.   By contrast, as an enemy, the last thing you would want to do is to let Beijing to build its strength under its own timetable.  Historically, China has been most formidable when it was allowed to put itself together and build up at its leisure.  By contrast, the same China has been much less formidable when it faced fast-paced events, such as revolts and barbarian invasions, which gave very little allowance for timetables and plans. 
 
Quote    Reply

Spiky       1/10/2010 1:57:07 PM
Mainly on the military side:
 
1) Keep winning over the Indians by selling them the military equiptment and arms they need. Also, keep sending the advisors and tech guys to train their army, navy, and airforce with respect to our military arms and philosophy. This will forge a stronger relationship with India, and it helps our economy, as we sell them more military equipment, and continue to take more of the military market sales from the Russians or Ukranians who sell plenty to them. 10 C-17s for India is a nice start and hopefully more in the future. If things get bad between India and China, India will need all the C-17s and C-130s that they can use to ferry all the men and supplies back and forth from the major cities to the borders.
 
2) If I was India, I would buy some submarines from Germany or France to really scare the Chinese regarding the shipping lanes to the Middle East and Africa from where China gets most of their oil and much of their need raw material for their economy.
 
3) India should continue to beef up with greater urgency their naval ports, industry, and ship building. We should continue our naval excersices with India to keep the diplomatic pressure on the offensive instead of the defensive. This would help India keep control of the Indian Ocean.
 
4) Long shot, but boy it would be nice to start selling the Indians M-1 Abrahams tanks like we are doing already with Egypt and soon Iraq while chipping away at that market that belongs to Russia.
 
5) Continue open relationship to help the Indians with their domestic nuclear programs.
 
6) They already get much of our business that has flocked and gone off-shore to India, so that is tie that binds us more with them every passing year although not to the extent that we do economic business with China which is what the Obama Administration wants to protect and not rock the boat too much.
 
Just some suggestions
 
Quote    Reply

FJV       1/10/2010 4:52:23 PM
Divide and conquer, one wonders if that is what the US founding fathers had in mind.
 
 
 
 
Quote    Reply

Nanheyangrouchuan    Axis and Allies   1/11/2010 12:28:35 AM
 
Russia would sorta be on China's and Iran's side, enough to re-establish itself but I doubt it would want to take on Isreal-India-UK-US.
 
Quote    Reply

Merchant_Of_Menace       2/14/2010 1:49:43 PM
Considering India's good relationship with Russia, and Pakistan's relationship with China, I say let them all go at it.  Bring down four (nuclear armed) birds with one stone.  Make it five if there's a way to bring North Korea into this.
 
Quote    Reply

sunnyp       12/15/2010 11:40:53 AM

shut up you redneck. do you know US and western countries are the most resource hungry in the world. Even with its 1 billion population, India has 16 times lower per capita consumption as compare to US, which is 5 times lower in total. Again per capita food consumption including meat and dairy in India is much lower than in US. US is fighting wars around the world to secure its energy and resource needs. Iraq was for oil and Afghan for minerals and securing access to resource rich central Asia. US and western culture is of excess and waste. 50% of the US and western worlds population is overweight or obese. I think curbing US and western countries appetite for energy and resource would solve the world problems. And also do you think world will be unaffected during Indo - Sino war? Any nuclear exchange will cause massive fire and burnout which will cause whole earth to be surrounded by clouds for tens of years and which will trigger an ice age and destruction of worlds crops and vegetation. clear fodder in your brain and contribute to your society.

 
Quote    Reply



 Latest
 News
 
 Most
 Read
 
 Most
 Commented
 Hot
 Topics