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Subject: President Obama's performance as Commander in Chief...
DarthAmerica    5/3/2011 4:07:42 PM
Hello, 3 years ago, there was considerable discussion in the MSM and elsewhere regarding President Obama's lack military experience and how that would affect his performance in the role of CINC. Well it seems now that we have enough DATA to actually draw some conclusions on this matter. I'll only cover the most obvious past events but I think its enough to make the point. In no particular order... 1. One of the first real public test of Obama's ability to act as CINC was the decision to "surge" forces in to Afghanistan and dramatically intensify the "Drone War" in Pakistan. This was a affirmation of America's continuing commitment to OEF inspite of the post election anti war sentiment. The combined result of this was demonstrated Sunday night. 2. Although largely symbolic, the decision to end Operation Iraqi Freedom and the start of Operation New Dawn. This ties into our Iran and Russia strategy that I'll cover at a later time. If anyone has specific questions and I'm able I'll try to respond to the best of my understanding. 3. Somali Pirate Hostage Standoff involving Navy Seals. 4. The delaying and indefinite postponement of closing the Quitmo Prison inspite of the harsh domestic pressure to do so thusly demonstrating an understanding of military necessity and continuity of policy from the previous admin. 5. MASSIVE humanitarian efforts such as Haiti and Japan. While not combat operations they do demonstrate the power and logistical muscle of the United States. 6. Bombardment of Libya. While I still do not approve of this Operation Odessey Dawn, the way in which is was launched and then passed to EU/NATO was extremely skillfull and cunning once the motive is understood. 7. Killing of Osama Bin Laden. I wont go into this much as I'm sure the President Obama more than adequatelty explained his role. While this list is certainly not all inclusive, what I think it demonstrates is that not 2012 candidate could raise President Obama's lack of service or political affiliations as a weakness. Agree with his policies or not, the only objective conclusion is that we have a quite capable Commander in Chief. Regards, DA
 
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Reactive       5/3/2011 5:33:28 PM
 Before this thread becomes a war zone I'd like to venture a few points as I have to get back to work
 
1. One of the first real public test of Obama's ability to act as CINC was the decision to "surge" forces in to Afghanistan and dramatically intensify the "Drone War" in Pakistan. This was a affirmation of America's continuing commitment to OEF inspite of the post election anti war sentiment. The combined result of this was demonstrated Sunday night.
 

Some say that the drone war has created havoc in the Taliban chain of command, which has helped the war effort and destabilised their powerbase. Other sources say that it is making the Pakistani population increasingly embittered as civilian casualties are angrily reported in the media. My personal view is that both are probably true, and that respecting borders is a privilege that can only be enjoyed by nations that have control of their territory - in the case of the trbal regions where Pakistani state control is minimal it does seem a good policy to remove any "safe haven" from which operations in Afghanistan can be conducted.
 
 
2. Although largely symbolic, the decision to end Operation Iraqi Freedom and the start of Operation New Dawn. This ties into our Iran and Russia strategy that I'll cover at a later time. If anyone has specific questions and I'm able I'll try to respond to the best of my understanding.
 
I am sure you know more about that than I do, but please do elaborate.

3. Somali Pirate Hostage Standoff involving Navy Seals.

That demonstrated some balls, but it was luck as much as anything else that the hostage survived, I'm not sure Obama can take the credibility for the outcome..
 
4. The delaying and indefinite postponement of closing the Quitmo Prison inspite of the harsh domestic pressure to do so thusly demonstrating an understanding of military necessity and continuity of policy from the previous admin.

Agreed, although I'm of mixed views about Gitmo, I'm not sure it was such a universally negative operation as has been suggested.
 
5. MASSIVE humanitarian efforts such as Haiti and Japan. While not combat operations they do demonstrate the power and logistical muscle of the United States.
 
6. Bombardment of Libya. While I still do not approve of this Operation Odessey Dawn, the way in which is was launched and then passed to EU/NATO was extremely skillfull and cunning once the motive is understood.

I also think the US involvement was cleverly executed, though I'm pretty sure I disagree as to why that was.
 
7. Killing of Osama Bin Laden. I wont go into this much as I'm sure the President Obama more than adequatelty explained his role.
 
He did make it a major feature of his campaign so he can legitimately take credit for this - though I must say I dislike the way he injected himself as much as he did into his speech announcing the death of Bin Laden, he seemed (to me) overeager to take credit. In another sense, I'm not sure many US presidents would have elected to do nothing if given the same intel by the CIA - sure he gave the green light to the operation but I don't see that as particularly risky on his part - and hardly something you would expect any president to do particularly differently.
 
In terms of two other major foreign policy issues, (China and Russia, and relations with allies), I think he's been relatively weak, but that's another story, and I can't elaborate here. I also think he was relatively weak on the recent arab unrest but that's also for another time.
 
I wouldn't herald him as a strategic genius just yet, in comparison to GWB he is undoubtedly an order of magnitude more capable and calculating, but I would like to see Hilary Clinton in charge as I think she demonstrates a more complete understanding of the wider issues.
 
R

 
 
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DarthAmerica    @Reactive   5/3/2011 5:53:50 PM
Sad but true it's important on this forum that you need to get your comments in BEFORE the vitriolic trolling starts...
 
 
I just wanted to add that I'm not making ANY comparison to ANY other POTUS good or bad. I'm simply saying that President Obama has demonstrated the ability to be Commander in Chief and than that is no longer a valid point of contention during the next election cycle.
 
More on Operation Odessey Dawn, Iran and Russia to follow later as time permits but hopefully before the haters show up...
 
 
-DA
 
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dazedandconfused       5/4/2011 2:16:36 AM
 
"I'm not sure many US presidents would have elected to do nothing if given the same intel by the CIA - sure he gave
the green light to the operation but I don't see that as particularly risky on his part - and hardly something you would expect any president to do particularly differently."
 
 
The only thing I would say about this is that he had other options and that when one helicopter went down and could not be flown, visions of the Iranian desert, burning aircraft and failed missions must have sprung to mind.  That operation (or failure) really hurt Jimmy Carter and Obama must have worried that the whole thing could go pear shaped.
 
Just a thought.
S.
 
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tigertony       5/4/2011 11:59:41 AM
 
http://www.wnd.com/images/MARCH_11_600_wide.jpg" width="600" height="767" />

Incredibly, the Muslim Brotherhood is attacking America using the exact same strategy and tactics employed so successfully by the left.

That's right. For decades, while America was furiously fighting communism overseas and struggling to neutralize the threat of nuclear war, the very same Marxist enemy was busily infiltrating America and eating away at its moral foundation like termites ? subverting core institutions such as education, the news and entertainment media and even churches. As a direct result, America today increasingly resembles a European-style socialist welfare state ? exactly what the Marxists had in mind all along.
 
  
"Allah is our objective; the Prophet is our leader; the Quran is our law; Jihad is our way; dying in the way of Allah is our highest hope."
 
 Now i wonder what group would make such a statement? And it is not AQ!.
 
  So why did Obama kill an unarmed Osama? Afterall, I bet alot of Americans would like to watch his execution on TV, like Saddam's. Instead, he helped make him a martyr.
 
  So why did Obama bury Osama at sea? Afterall, I guess he was a Navy Seal? Now Mr Obama said he gave him a proper Islamic burial. Only problem with that BS, is that a Muslim who died on land, must be buried on land. So i guess this will sit well with the brotherhood?
 
 Now people like DA will say the above is all nonsense, but i suggest he look at "THE REAL WORLD". I suggest you start in Wisconsin with Omar Mohamad of the Socialist Party of South Central Wisconsin. Then move onto Egypt and Libya.
 
  The only real thing Obama has done is to weaken Israel, and that is just what the brotherhood wants. And you DA, better take off them dark shades, and stop being such a blind racist with regards to a man. And i would give Mr Obama credit if i thought he did anything, problem is that he has not. I do not have respect for a man who knew Osama's location since 2009, and waited till it was politically needed to boost the polls to win. And I really do not think our Seal Team 6 would either.
 
 And if Mr Obama really had balls, like you people seem to think "Then why not place Osama in a casket on display at ground zero?". Now that would be balls!. Afterall, as an American, how can i piss on his grave, without polluting the ocean?
 
 And i am glad they killed the man, but you people would be foolish to think this is over.
 
 
                                                                     tigertony
 
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DarthAmerica       5/4/2011 1:32:08 PM

Tony,

I've been around long enough on these forum to recognize that you have "unique" points of view. I can respect that. Please try to limit your characterization of my understanding and fringe rhetoric in threads I start. If I thought it would be worth it I would be more than happy to explain things to you but when you start off a conversation in such a condesending self righteous and conspiratorial tone, you open the door to argumentative flaming. If you think the Muslim Brotherhood is hatching a plot to take over the world, great. This thread however is about President Obama as CINC.

Finally, do not come in here calling ANYBODY racist. That's uncalled for...

-DA

 
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Reactive       5/4/2011 1:55:31 PM
As predicted, enter conspiracy nut  #1
 
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Reactive       5/4/2011 2:01:27 PM
It's also funny how each new buzzword (most of the Muslim Brotherhood "fantasists" only discovered their existence during the Egyptian situation) inspires fear and paranoia in a certain section of the population. 

Back to the issue at hand, I think what actually happens now, and how Obama handles the fallout with ISI and the Pakistan Govt as more info comes to light is going to be a big tell, my own view is that there is a fine line to tread to produce the desired reaction here. Intriguing stuff!
 
R
 
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tigertony    DA   5/4/2011 2:25:49 PM

Tony,


I've been around long enough on these forum to recognize that you have "unique" points of view. I can respect that. Please try to limit your characterization of my understanding and fringe rhetoric in threads I start. If I thought it would be worth it I would be more than happy to explain things to you but when you start off a conversation in such a condesending self righteous and conspiratorial tone, you open the door to argumentative flaming. If you think the Muslim Brotherhood is hatching a plot to take over the world, great. This thread however is about President Obama as CINC.


Finally, do not come in here calling ANYBODY racist. That's uncalled for...


-DA



 My post is also about Mr Obama as CINC. Now you blind and brainwashed Obama robot "Just try answering my real questions!". There I did not call you a racist. However, the real facts since Mr Obama ran for office prove otherwise DA,or should i say gixx?. So if the shoe fits "Wear It".
 
 Least I can say that i have not gone against my former principles to support a man who would destroy them. I also notice that i have never needed to change my name on this site, unlike you DA. And do you know why? Because i have never changed my principles for GWB or Obama. That is more then we could say for you DA.
 
 
                                                                        tigertony
 
 
 
                
 
 
 
 
                           
 
 
              

                                                        
 
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tigertony    Reactive   5/4/2011 2:42:50 PM

As predicted, enter conspiracy nut  #1


   You are a laugh riot R. Funny how people like yourself can name call, but when confronted by superiour wisdom have nothing smart ass to say anymore.
   And this below proves my point:
 
 

 

http://socialistparty-usa.org/statements/sp_banner.jpg" />
   Make a contribution to the SPUSA
SPUSA Home Page
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Electoral Action
 
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FJV    Yawn   5/4/2011 3:26:43 PM
I do not have respect for a man who knew Osama's location since 2009, and waited till it was politically needed to boost the polls to win. And I really do not think our Seal Team 6 would either.
 
Sun Tzu said: The good fighters of old first put themselves beyond the possibility of defeat, and then waited for an opportunity of defeating the enemy.
 
The absolute 1st priority is/was to keep Pakistani nukes out of the hands of islamic fundamentalists. Only after this is/was achieved is it possible to go after Bin Laden.
 
I can easily understand how the 1st objective can take those several extra years. It is also likely that info about this aspect will be classified for our lifetime.
 
PS
The "having balls" discussion, I consider nonsense. In cases like this the professionals don't have the luxury to worry about being manly enough.
 
With nukes involved, I have exactly zero percent interest in "showing balls" when it comes to selecting the optimal strategy. As a matter in fact, should it turn out that the girly girl, pink unicorn, effeminate weasel option proves to be the optimal strategy, I'll opt for that one.
 

 
 
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