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Subject: The Reqirement For Christian-Muslim Peace
[email protected]    10/28/2001 5:47:57 AM
Sure this is a strategy website, but philosophically, the end of war is peace, so let's consider the requirement of peace in an "eternal conflict". One could not want a better expert than Professor Seyyed Hossein Nasr to explain the Muslim viewpoint fairly, and lay down the real requirement of Christian-Muslim peace. Now at time when frustration threatens to move the debate from strategic necessity to real religious hostility, it is right to consider this "eternal war" in the light of history, and the mutual hopes for all peoples for peace on the terms they desire. As witnessed by the Pope's Year 2000 apology for Christianity's dark past (which included harsh words and negative attitudes about Islam), non-Muslims have a lot to be sorry for in this conflict. Also, Muslims now face the threat or at least the thought of persecution in Western societies, so we should consider their viewpoint attentively. What does Professor Seyyed Hossein Nasr identify as the barrier to a fair and free dialogue between Christians and Muslims? What should we do to eradicate this barrier? I invite comments from all. http://about.beliefnet.com/frameset.asp?boardID=2002&pageloc=/story/16/story_1631_1.html Seyyed Hossein Nasr is a professor of Islamic Studies at George Washington University in Washington, D.C. He has authored some 40-plus books and over 500 articles. E: And my last question to you: I have learned from you that in the realm of "atmosphere," there is conflict, but reconciliation is possible in the "Divine Stratosphere." If this is so, then only a properly trained scholar in both traditions can engage in any meaningful dialogue. What should the ordinary Muslims in the community do, who have to co-exist with their Christian neighbors? SHN: The Qur'an asserts that the Muslims must have respect for the followers of other religions. As long as Muslims believe in Tawheed (oneness of God) and their book they should not have any problem getting along with the Ahl al-Kitab (People of the Book). This term should be understood in a larger context. This, in my opinion, includes, besides Jews and Christians, all the primordial and orthodox religious traditions, such as Confucianism and Hinduism. However, it is very important to know that at the practical level, things are not that simple for Islam and Christianity. One of these religions, Western Christianity, and on a smaller scale Judaism in Israel, is wed to a tremendous economic and military power structure. This was not a question in the Middle Ages, when two traditional civilizations based on God fought against each other's conception of God. Their armies were fairly even, and they respected each other in the battlefield. It is not like this today. The disparity in power prevents Muslims and Christians sitting together for a fair and free dialogue. Just take [some recent] examples: East Timor and Chechnya both were colonies. East Timor was colonized by the Portuguese some 500 years ago, and Chechnya fairly recently, about 150 to 200 years ago. In the case of East Timor, whose population of about half a million is Catholic, a big international campaign took place, which led to its independence. In the case of Chechnya, on the other hand, where a massive slaughter of Muslims took place, the very Western countries that so often speak about human rights, self-determination, and democracy sit idly by and watch the massacre. There is a strong push into the Muslim world that is based on money and the power of missionaries. There is a significant amount of money being spent in Indonesia and Pakistan in trying to convert people to Christianity. Muslims have no choice but to be awaken and have a sense of vigilance. To be friends is good, but Muslims must not let their guard down as far as religion is concerned.
 
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Ike    RE:The Reqirement For Christian-Muslim Peace   10/29/2001 1:51:29 PM
I find Mr Nasr's comments on missionaries in Pakistan and Indonesia funny. First of all if the Moslems there had such incorruptible faith in their religion then Missionaries wouldnt be any threat,no one would be interested in converting. At least its voluntary I wonder what Mr Nasr would say about Sudans practice of taking Christian children from the south and putting them in Moslem households to be raised Moslem. Doesnt sound too voluntary to me.
 
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[email protected]    RE:The Reqirement For Christian-Muslim Peace   10/29/2001 2:38:24 PM
Ike said: I find Mr Nasr's comments on missionaries in Pakistan and Indonesia funny. First of all if the Moslems there had such incorruptible faith in their religion then Missionaries wouldn't be any threat,no one would be interested in converting. -- There are Christians in Pakistan, and Indonesia. The do not live happy lives, on the whole. (My impression anyway.) http://www.abc.net.au/news/2001/10/item20011030015320_1.htm Memorial services begin for slaughtered Christians Memorial services are taking place in Pakistan for 17 Christians and a guard who were killed on Sunday after unidentified gunmen burst into a church and opened fire on worshipers. Huge crowds gathered all morning in the church compound to mourn the dead. ... The local community have blamed pro-Taliban hardliners who recently held demonstrations in the town denouncing the American-led strikes on Afghanistan. Pakistani President Pervez Musharraf denounced the slaying as the work of terrorists and police said they believed it may have been carried out in retaliation for the US-led military assault on Afghanistan. "The service was about to finish when three bearded men got into the hall and sprayed bullets everywhere," Bahawalpur Senior Superintendent of Police Arif Ikram said. -- In Indonesia. both Christians and Muslims have committed massacres. In East Timor (which is Catholic) under Indonesian control, things were ... seriously unpleasant. So there are Church activities, very quietly, funerals and so on for a start. I don't know about Sudan. Where would be a good place to get the facts?
 
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Ike    RE:The Reqirement For Christian-Muslim Peace   10/29/2001 2:52:59 PM
I have found the BBC a good source of foreign news, this homepage has some good info on Sudan. I am nowhere near an expert on religions so I hope I'm not getting in over my head here.
 
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[email protected]    RE:The Reqirement For Christian-Muslim Peace   10/29/2001 3:27:47 PM
Thanks for the references, Ben. Yes, I have found this site very reliable. And I think we are all just figuring out now how this religion/war thing really works in our time. Anyone who claims to be such an expert they can't be surprised is lying. We are all out of our depth, so we should help eaxch other. Here is a good article by a real expert. I have more references if you want. http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/90sep/rage.htm
 
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[email protected]    RE:The Reqirement For Christian-Muslim Peace   10/29/2001 3:30:12 PM
Thanks for the references, Ben. Yes, I have found this site very reliable. And I think we are all just figuring out now how this religion/war thing really works in our time. Anyone who claims to be such an expert they can't be surprised is lying. We are all out of our depth, so we should help eaxch other. Here is a good article by a real expert. I have more references if you want. http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/90sep/rage.htm
 
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Ike    Eternal Christian/Western vs Islam war   11/1/2001 12:52:16 PM
Thanks DB, That article in the Atlantic was very perceptive for its time (written in 1990)it helps to illustrate the muslim mind-set compared to Americans and/or westerners in general, which has been well explained in some posts, though this goes into more detail. It will be a while before most Americans begin to realize that a very good chunk of the Moslem world see this as part of an ongoing struggle that has been going on for 1500 years now.
 
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pfd    RE:Eternal Christian/Western vs Islam war   12/25/2001 3:10:26 PM
I confess that this is probably the most thoughtful thread on the message boards here. The sad thing is that I think the current situation is not about religeon at all. Someone mentioned on the tube that osb is a facist. That crystalised it for me. Perhaps it felt too convenient but on reflection it made tremendous sense. When you see other posts on this site (by the USA) versions you will see what I mean. Be it flags or biblical tomes, way of life etc. it is irrelavant. It is a mindset of us vs them coupled with lots of symbols of rightousness. -on both 'sides'. It appears to me that OSB discovered his own neo-nazi ethos and polished it to fit a certain cultural niche. His fixation on archaic Bedouin social mores,poetry,religeon- kinda Volkish 'eh? Sure it strikes a chord with some people and causes terrible problems for his targets but it remains the act of like minded individuals and not the harbinger of a clash of nations or cultures. I shudder to think that the recent events may create USA inspired OSBs. ps sorry for the poor spelling and disjointed ideas-just a blue collar shmuck speaking out....
 
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[email protected]    RE:Eternal Christian/Western vs Islam war   12/25/2001 5:03:21 PM
pfd, speak all you like. :) But never speak about "just" blue collar again. I hate snobbery, and I respect people who actually work for a living. OK? I agree there are non-trivial reasons to define Osama bin Laden as a fascist. But that still would put this in the "Eternal Wars" category. One way or this other, Osama bin Laden represents a kind of foe that has to be fought over and over, in age after age. Whether you define his militant, expansionist, cultural-purity-obsessed xenophobia as primarily religious (as I would) or primarily as fascist (as you and Francis Fuyakawa do), the main point is it has to be fought.
 
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pfd    RE:Eternal Christian/Western vs Islam war   12/26/2001 9:01:17 AM
essentially no argument here. But the core of the Media/Governmental crowd seems to be pushing at the religion thing. I have that horrible out of context feeling. Once you take a problem and displace it into left-field, it seems to take on a life of it's own. My instincts say that you have a wealthy ding-bat that has found his true calling and has managed to grab a large group of similarly minded individuals on a hell-bent downward spiral. This leaves the grown ups (so we hope) to repair the mess. However, well intentioned academics have been press ganged by the media to find 'the big picture'. -could it be in reality just a blurry snapshot? sure hope so. ...Aw, welcome to interesting times!
 
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Pakistani    RE:The Reqirement For Christian-Muslim Peace   2/8/2002 3:52:00 PM
"Memorial services are taking place in Pakistan for 17 Christians and a guard who were killed on Sunday after unidentified gunmen burst into a church and opened fire on worshipers." It would be worthwhile to point out that this is not normal in Pakistan. This was a very unusualy event.
 
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