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Subject: SGTObvious Manifesto 2, Defnitions, and Infallibility
SGTObvious    8/21/2003 7:27:26 AM
I'm going somewhere with this, I know it (with less than 100% certainty, see below) but I get a feeling I wont know exactly where it is till Manifesto 5 or 6. Fallibility, Infallibility, Certainty, and Definitions I'd like to start off with a free prize for all who read this- SGTObvious will now destroy a favorite paradox asked by over-inquisitive children for centuries. "Can God create a rock so heavy he cannot lift it?" What is the answer? The answer is No. That's right. Here's why. Before we answer a question, we have to agree on the meaning of the question. If we don't agree on the meaning, the answer is useless. If you ask me, how big is a hamster, and I define "hamster" to mean "the state of Nebraska", the answer will be of no use to us- and meaningless. In this question, when we say God, we mean an Omnipotent, (Can do anything) Omniscient (Knows Everything) being. We trust the being is Benevolent, too, because if not, well, that would be bad and is further discussed below. If you have any other meaning for God, we do not agree on the terms of the question. Now God, being Omnipotent, is an unstoppable force, by definition. A rock he could not move, by definition, would be an immovable object. So our question really says "Can unstoppable force move an immovable object". Now, look again. The definition of unstoppable force MEANS that no immovable object can exist. By allowing the term to be used, if we accept its meaning, we cannot accept the existence of the other. The one is the Negation of the other. So, we can refine our paradoxial sentence again, and we get: "Can X = Not X?" If X equals Not X, we do not have a definition of X. If X is undefined, we have no business asking questions about it, or answering them. It's meaningless. I could just as well ask, is a splatsblu a derfjik? With the terms undefined, the questions do not matter. So, God cannot make a rock he cannot lift, because if he could the question itself would be undefined and make no sense. SInce the Answer cannot possibly be Yes, it must be No. You might say, Aha, but this shows there is something God cannot do, so he is not Omnipotent! Wrong. Since the action you propose God cannot do is logically and mathematically undefinable, it cannot exist, even in theory. God can do anything definable. It is nonsense to ask if he can do undefinable things- we cannot ask a question we do not agree on- and in any event non-definable things have no bearing on a definition of God. Can we accept God as infallible? If we beleive that God is Omnipotent- capable of doing anything- it logically follwos that God has the capability of Omniscience- knowing everything. The gathering and processing of information is a definable action, therefore, God can do it without limitations. God may choose to leave some things unknown, to allow/create Free Will for example, but he has the capability to know everything. The doubter says- wait, if he chooses not to know everything, then he is not really Omniscient, is he? Yes he is. Just as he is still Omnipotent even though he chooses not to do everything. So, God is Omniscient. Does this mean he is infallible? We might think that if God can choose to Not Know something, he might be, by his own choice, fallible. Where God fails, if he fails, it is his own choice. But we have to define failure. But "fail" is a judgement term. It means an outcome was judged to be inferior to an intended outcome. COnsider an possible action on God's part. He may choose to act, and thereby do anything he wills, or he may choose to not act, and leave the outcome to chance or human nature. If he chooses not to act, the outcome is still reflective of his choice, and so, any judgement on our part of "failure" is strictly a limited, personal one. Although I choose not to beleive God views the world as a game, consider this analogy: You set up a chessboard. You have the option of playing both sides, and every move will be exactly as you will it to be, and your chosen side will win. Or, you set up a computer to play the other side, and it defeats you. Did you really fail? You lost the game, but you chose that possibility. Your intended Goal was a realistic and challenging game, and you got it. Still think you failed? Perhaps, from the point of view of the White King, you did, but not from your point of view. You lost a game, but only within the perspective of the game. From a far broader perspective, you succeeded. So, God is Omnipotent, Omniscient, and Infallible. People, on the other hand, are another story. With a few exceptions, all people admit their own infallibility. There is a small and dangerous subclass of people that claims that depsite their mortal infallibility, they can interpret the will of God with absolute infallibilty. They are wrong. They might have extremely strong feelings on the subject, but that is irrelevant. They might
 
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ArrowGuns    RE:SGTObvious Manifesto 2, Defnitions, and Infallibility   8/21/2003 7:52:13 AM
Brilliant!
 
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ghettovet    RE:SGTObvious Manifesto 2, Defnitions, and Infallibility   8/21/2003 11:47:44 AM
Head Spinning!!!! You 'da man Sarge! Teach on!!
 
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American Kafir    RE:SGTObvious Manifesto 2, Defnitions, and Infallibility   8/21/2003 3:31:57 PM
Can God make a mistake and learn from it?
 
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American Kafir    RE:SGTObvious Manifesto 2, Defnitions, and Infallibility   9/2/2003 6:43:01 PM
I was hoping Sarge could clarify on my question I posed - "Can God make a mistake and learn from it?" If God can't make mistakes (infallible) and can't learn (because he knows everything already) then it can be truly said that I can do something that God cannot.
 
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Rosecroix    RE:SGTObvious Manifesto 2, Defnitions, and Infallibility   9/3/2003 7:09:07 AM
that mean you're gonna vote hillary next time, af? :)
 
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SGTObvious    God and AK   9/3/2003 12:09:32 PM
Not only can I clarify, AK, but you've inadvertently given me a better lead in to "Manifesto 3, Human Purpose" than I could ever have hoped to on my own. Clearly Miraculous! It'll be out soon.
 
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American Kafir    RE:SGTObvious Manifesto 2, Defnitions, and Infallibility   9/3/2003 6:14:50 PM
>that mean you're gonna vote hillary next time, af? :)< As an atheist and a realist, I have to tell you that there is considerably more acceptable evidence that there is a possibility that there is a God than there is that I would vote for Hillary, even under pain of death.
 
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American Kafir    RE:God and AK   9/3/2003 6:15:24 PM
Glad I can help :)
 
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jastayme3    RE:SGTObvious Manifesto 2, Defnitions, and Infallibility   5/3/2004 3:46:33 PM
If you beleive that you know the will of God with infallibility, you are denying God's Omnipotence! ............................................... I don't believe I know the will of God with infallibility. However I do believe that any given belief I have happens to be correct. Otherwise I would not believe it. It is contradictery to say that you believe something to be true, and also to say that you don't.
 
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jastayme3    RE:SGTObvious Manifesto 2, Defnitions, and Infallibility   5/3/2004 3:52:56 PM
If you beleive that you know the will of God with infallibility, you are denying God's Omnipotence! ............................................... I don't believe I know the will of God with infallibility. However I do believe that any given belief I have happens to be correct. Otherwise I would not believe it. It is contradictery to say that you believe something to be true, and also to say that you don't ............................... I also believe that some things are what God told Man, including me, about his will God cannot lie Therefore what he told me must be true. Unless I am mistaken in believeing such things are from God In which case I made a big blunder But I cannot have final unmistakable proof until I die So I continue in my assumption just as an atheist does
 
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