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Subject: England and the rest of Europe are in a lot of trouble...
Final Historian    1/23/2003 11:13:25 AM,2933,76390,00.html Got this from Fox, it tells about a muslim cleric in England who was actively preaching Jihad and martydom. Guys like him are the real enemy, they are responsible for Muslim hatred of the West, not economic exploitation. How can people blind themselves to the truth? Economics is just a ruse, religion is the motivating factor for these radical clerics.
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giblets    RE:England and the rest of Europe ~~~correction   1/24/2003 6:05:36 AM
Christianity is doing its bit in Northern Ireland too! People seem to forget that in Europe we have been coping with Terrorism far longer than the USA, the IRA, ETA, Novemebr 17 in Greece etc. In Britain, people are used to keeping their eye open for unattended bags and stuff, so not that great a difference.
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Final Historian    RE:England and the rest of Europe ~~~correction   1/24/2003 4:31:25 PM
Yeah, that is a good point giblets, I forgot about that. But my concern is that the countries of Europe (UK not included) don't fully understand the threat posed by Islamic Radicals. Especially goons like this guy.
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Final Historian    RE:England and the rest of Europe ~~~ DOUBLE correction   1/26/2003 12:38:38 PM
I never compared it UMP, I merely said that sectarian violence in Ireland has caused a lot of killing. Last I checked, I never said that the IRA and Hezb'allah are on the same level. Please don't distort my posts, ok? The IRA is like a Middle School gang compared to the top level Islamist Terrorist groups. I was just acknowledging that religious violence has occured elswhere as well. Although, to tell the truth, the North Ireland situation isn't so much religious as anti-English, the IRA hates Britain, and the Ulsterites hate the rest of the Irish. Rather stupid, if you ask me.
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bsl    RE:England and the rest of Europe ~~~correction   1/28/2003 10:27:24 PM
"in Europe we have been coping with Terrorism far longer than the USA" "In Britain, people are used to keeping their eye open" Nothing, at all, in the last 30 years has prepared Europe for what's threatening right now. The level of risk from the IRA was limited and the whole rest of the European groups, Baader-Meinhof, Brigate Rosse, ETA were trivial risks for typical citizens. (And, just for the record, I speak as someone who had some experience with a terrorist threat, in Germany, when a diplomatic reception I attended was highlighted by the appearance of a convoy of German armored vehicles who showed up because a car with a trunk full of explosives had just been located.) There isn't a country in the free world where people are more alert for the sorts of things you mention than is Israel. That cuts down on successful attacks. It doesn't eliminate them. Haven't you noticed? What's at issue, today, are not a few attacks with boringly conventional arms. They're attacks with excitingly deadly chemical and biological weapons. To the extent older type attacks are contemplated, the added factor is that they may come not from a small, extreme fringe, but out of masses of muslim residents. You think the Irish Catholics of Northern Ireland could be sullen? I don't recall campaigns of attacks by them at civilians? Do you? There were riots, which Europe is well used to. The bombings were always the work of a few groups which never fielded more than a few hundred operatives, and even seemed, from time to time, to have a few scruples about civilians. But, I'm not especially worried, any more. Willful European blindness will have it's own rewards. If we can believe *European* media, there have been muslim terror cells arrested in several countries which seemed to be working towards attacks *in Europe*. Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Britain. I doubt it will take much more than a few parliaments blown up, a subway or two filled with nerve gas, or one moderately sized bio-weapons release to get your attention.
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Final Historian    RE:England and the rest of Europe ~~~correction   1/29/2003 12:14:20 AM
England I think has waken to the threat, Blair is nobody's fool. The question is how long it will take the others to figure out that they are in for a #*%$ load of trouble in the years ahead? Actually, time may not be the determining factor, body count will.
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giblets    RE:England and the rest of Europe ~~~ DOUBLE correction   2/5/2003 5:13:32 AM
'GIBLETS', GIVE ME A LIST OF ROMAN CATHOLIC PRIESTS THAT HAVE CALLED FOR JIHAD AGAINST THE ENGLISH! Home I think if you read this, it may clear things up a bit Not only preaching but actively involved OK for you??
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giblets    More links for Homer   2/5/2003 5:31:20 AM
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Elbandeedo    RE:More links for Homer   2/5/2003 8:35:34 AM
Ok giblets - you've proved exactly 4 priest were tied to terrorism. I know, I know - it goes to pattern. Where there is one skunk in the woodpile, theres probably several. Honestly, I'm not surprised. My real problem, and I've mentioned this before (and it was nicely pointed out in the article by Austin Bay.) is that many misguided Americans support terrorism in the name of "Irish Nationalism". I picture the Irish problem as somewhat similar to the Bosnian issue (and I know all models break down when taken too far). example: Ireland- the British forces. They are keeping the Irish Catholics and the Irish Protestants from murdering each other in a huge wave of violence. In Bosnia- U.S. led multi-national forces are keeping Serbs, muslims, Croats from murdering each other. Both these conflicts have been going on for hundreds of years, in one form or another. Greater minds than mine have been put to the test of finding a solution for the "Irish Problem" - so why bother? Ahh well, here goes! Why not either pull the British forces out and let the massacre begin - then after the smoke clears, anyone left alive can be tried for crimes against humanity and hanged - or we can send in a U.S.-led multi-national force and WE can become the 'enemy' to both parties! ;o) But really the point of this discussion was the imams who spew jihad against westerners. (guess what? they want the ira as dead as the rest of us! we all "look the same" to 'them'.) And it's not in the "onsies, twosies" either, it's hundreds upon hundreds of sadistic, brainwashed "imams" ranting every week from their version of a pulpit that the rest of the world deserves death because we 'ain't like them'. That's the bottom line. I see your point, some (VERY few) Christians (who by definition of a true believer were NOT walking with Christ)have committed attrocities and terror. but they can't even begin to compare with the islamo-fascist running-dog, hegemonistic imams. E.
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giblets    RE:More links for Homer   2/5/2003 10:14:40 AM
I agree with most of your points, but you go to Ireland,a nd it is not one or two who agree, it is thousands of them. The fact that you have several priests involved inthe activities shows the depth of the feeling. If you think that Muslims are quite violent at heart,then to have men of the cloth commiting these attrocites shows the seriousness of the problem. Luckil for the UK, when all the catholic kids are throwing rocks at police vans, they do not send in Challenger tanks and apache gunships to shoot them, probably one of the reason that the problem has not sprialled out of control as in Palestine ( compare to when the 'bloody sunday' massacre when IRA recruitment wass at a high!)
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SGTObvious    Obvious, Giblets.   2/5/2003 11:19:42 AM
"Luckil for the UK, when all the catholic kids are throwing rocks at police vans, they do not send in Challenger tanks and apache gunships to shoot them," That is because the Irish have the human decency NOT to use the kids as the "Front Rank" screening the snipers, riflemen, firebomb throwers, rocket launchers and mortars that make dandy targets for tanks and helis. I have yet to see a 10 year old Irish kid with a thick moustache and an AK.
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