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Subject: How to Deter the Meatbombers
swhitebull    9/16/2003 12:01:49 PM
INteresting article on the psychology of suicide bombers, with insight on how to deter them: http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-wolfson091603.asp swhitebull
 
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capitalist72    RE:How to Deter the Meatbombers   9/16/2003 12:32:47 PM
Put pressure on every Islamic state and the Muslim theologists within to proclaim loudly, clearly, and repeatedly, that suicide bombing is un-Islamic and those that choose this path are doomed to hell. When 72 virgins are swapped with 72 eunuchs, these guys wont be too keen on blowing themselves up.
 
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SGTObvious    RE:How to Deter the Meatbombers   9/16/2003 1:20:21 PM
The CIA and Israeli researchers concluded long ago that the perception of the suicide bomber as a deranged psychotic is false. On the whole, suicide bombers attacking Israel are far above average for the Palestinian population in terms of family background, wealth, and education. Psychologist Steven Pinker looks at the phenomonon from a evolutionary point of view in "How the Mind Works" and cleverly avoids sinking his science book into the swamps of middle eastern politics by analyzing the "amok" phenomenon in south east asia. He discusses this as a kind of emotional "doomsday device"- when all else fails and all hope is gone, attack. Tactically, it is sound advice. Every US political strategist knows that when you have absolutely no other card to play, go for the nastiest negative ads you can think up. It's teh same idea. Morally, it's another story. There are strong significant factors linking the machete wielding amok warrior and the arab suicide bomber, and the arab promoter of terror. All believe with certainty that their "public" approves of what they do, that their "public" will gain through what they do (even if the gain is only relative, in zero-sum thinking, the enemy's loss is my gain) and that they have no other effective strategies. It would seem to me that a truly effective anti-suicide bomber campaign must take this into account and kick out at least one leg of this tripod. Therefore: 1. Eliminate public support. This was part of the US assault on Iraq. Any support for suicide bombers, even verbal, is dangerous and cannot be tolerated, especially when it comes from "authoritative" sources like heads of state or religious leaders. The US and Israel should take the same stand with Hamas: Any pro-suicide speaker should be arrested or killed, any building housing pro-suicide bomber propaganda destroyed. 2. The perception of gain must be destroyed. Written into any arab/israeli peace plan must be the idea that any suicide bombing will automatically result in permanent loss to "their" side. This is what hit Gaddafi. He he realized that if Libya was to be propserous, it had to be part of the global economy and out from under the sanctions. He realized that doing so meant taking the financial hits from terror-induced lawsuits. Gaddafi now understands that each terror attack backed by Libya will now mean a billion dollar real cost. Gaddafi will no longer support terror. Arafat is different. He has no economy to protect. His income is in the form of "skimming" from charity and UN grants, all of which will continue regardless of any terror, and Arafat, the UN, and the EU are unwilling to allow lawsuits to collect against these funds. To kick out leg #2, it must be clear to the Arabs that each time they blow up a bus in Israel, they lose something Real and Tangible, permanently. Money or Real Estate will do. 3. We can help them beleive there are real alternatives. This is a tougher case than it sounds, because it begs the question, alternatives to WHAT. All the typical Arab in Gaza is lookign for are alternative means to killing Israel. They have rejected alternatives to warfare in general. So, the west MUST take control over education in the middle east- we have done so in Iraq and Afghanistan- and teach the kids that there are reasonable alternatives to trying to KILL (or dominate) every non-muslim in the world. Two things that will not work: Meeting the demands of the suicide bombers will never work, even if the demands are reasonable, because you only end up reinforcing the perception of suicide bombing as an effective tool. Second, the nit-picking style of the Israelis will not work. Efforts must be complete and drastic or they are wasted. If they are Occupiers, good lord, let them Occupy. Israel should be managing the curriculum of every Arab school in Gaza and the West Bank, and they should be enforcing law and creating security, the way an occupier should.
 
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swhitebull    RE:How to Deter the Meatbombers   9/16/2003 1:57:39 PM
Excellent as usual, sarge. I couldnt have said it any better, myself. Only thing I would do differently is your point #2 - pain works. If you produce a larger pain than your opponent, then you end him to your will. NOtice how quickly Hamas started agreeing to a ceasefire when the actual leaders' lives were directly threatened. Now the Israelis need to maximize the pain. You kill civilians, we will not only kill your leaders, but their families, their exte3nded families, their friends, their business associates, etc. TOTALLY ruthless, and turn the beit shin loose. swhitebull - sorry couldnt help that, I just watched The Usual Suspects again, and noted how Kayser Socey dealt with the Hungarian mob that raped his wife and terrorized his children - TOTALLY ruthless response. The Israelis need to become the Pali Nightmare - until the Palis are ready to cave.
 
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Thomas    RE:How to Deter the Meatbombers   9/17/2003 5:34:08 AM
I'm with swhitebull on this. Hitting the top. The israelies will at least achieve lack of coordination. You say about the meatbomber what you want - but musing over their pension benfits is not one of their main occupations.
 
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American Kafir    RE:How to Deter the Meatbombers   9/17/2003 5:55:44 AM
I can't believe the level of mercy you guys would extend to terrorists. Kill them and their friends and their families? And leave their pets? I demand that all animals must be exterminated.
 
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Moosebiscuit    RE:How to Deter the Meatbombers   9/17/2003 11:59:14 PM
Hey, I thought when that suicide bomber with the wife and kids blew himself up a few weeks ago, we were looking at the beginning of a new trend. I had this creepy feeling that we were going to see suicide airliner bombers who looked like Westernized guys, and boarded with wives and children. It didn't happen, at least not on 9/11 this year. But it's still a possibility.
 
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Moosebiscuit    RE:How to Deter the Meatbombers - And to AK   9/18/2003 12:03:21 AM
Come on, lay off the pets. Actually, in Islamic culture (the Arabic wing, anyway), dogs are considered unclean animals, and every household is supposed to have a supply of rocks at the doorstep, to drive them away. Cats, I don't know.
 
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American Kafir    RE:How to Deter the Meatbombers - And to AK   9/18/2003 6:15:40 AM
Dogs as pets? I was talking about the lice.
 
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capitalist72    RE:How to Deter the Meatbombers - And to AK   9/18/2003 3:12:06 PM
I'm beginning to slowly appreciate your sense of humour, AK.....very dry.
 
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capitalist72    RE:How to Deter the Meatbombers - And to AK   9/18/2003 3:12:09 PM
I'm beginning to slowly appreciate your sense of humour, AK.....very dry.
 
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