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Subject: Attack in Spain
SGTObvious    3/11/2004 7:12:20 AM
It's got the look of ETA but not the smell. The Basque seperatist leader disavowed it entirely. But its too big for a few hate minded Arab revenge seekers. I'm betting on a joint effort, ETA's survivors and Al Queda. It's got both sets of paw prints. The Basque Country was never occupied by the Muslims, so in their twisted view of history, Bin Laden's vermin don't see the Basques as threatening their claim to the reconquest of Al Andalus. Yet. For now, maybe they've found something they can both agree to hate.
 
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Tercio    RE:Vae Victis-Densoflex   3/16/2004 4:36:46 PM
I'll try to put some order in the mess I've now in my head. "Tercio, as I wrote elsewhere, the Spanish public is now in line with its government. The vast majority of the Spaniards (80-90% ?) were against the US-led war in Iraq last year, and I must say it was a courageous move for the PPE to follow the Americans." It was courageous and the right thing to do. Sadly, Spanish people (and many other people of Europe,btw) don't know we are in war, thet don't want to know we are now in a war. Before 3/11, the most important concern for Spanish's people was the prize of real state, they were opposed to Aznar's support to US and they were afraid that this support would rise Spain a number of steps in the AQ ranking of targets, but since no AQ terror attack had happened in Europe before, they had (and I had, shame of me) got a impresion of false safety. That's the reason why polls were giving an easy victory to PP. 3/11 changed all that: - People got angry with Aznar because his government had failed in protect their lives. - They also got angry with Aznar because they thougt he was lying and trying to put the blame on ETA for the benefit of his party. - And they got angry because they thought that if Spain wouldn't have support the war of Irak, 3/11 wouldn't have happen. Of course that's wrong, it would have been 12/24 or 7/19 or whenever else, because all of us are targets for AQ, but that's what they thought (and sadly, that's they still think now). Otherwise, PSOE took advantage for it's own benefit and as a result, a big number of people who had not intention to vote changed their mind and decided to vote...to PSOE. "Like many people what astounds me the most is the speed at which the elected new PM Zapatero has decided to quit the coalition and turn its back to the countries' commitment. I know that it was in PSOE's electoral platform but still..." How do you think I feel about that?, I can hardly not vomitate. Zapatero hasn't realized yet what is really going now in the world, he still thinks the world can be changed with May'68 bulls**t. What is next?, Spain is KO, AQ has discovered how powerful a terror attack in elections time can be, so it will sure try it again somewhere else. And ETA can suddenly think that why not to use the same tactic. Furthermore, this is the end of Spain foreign policy's autonomy, whatever France&Germany will say it's OK, Zapatero will say amen. A good question is: how persuasive Bush and Blair can be?, will they try an stick&carrot approach with Zapatero?:if you withdraw the Spanish troops from Irak, stick, if you keep the troops, carrot (a kind of cosmetic change in Irak, like to let UN to play any kind of role?). I don't know, your views will be really appreciate. "What are today's news Tercio? And what about Spain's commitments elsewhere like in Afghanistan?" I'm currently in US, my contact with Spanish media is by Internet. Anyhow, no news from Afghanistan, Kosovo nor Bosnia, nobody is questioning to have Spanish troops there. Besides the fact PSOE is telling bulls**t in a speed never seen before, I have to be honest with you: PSOE ruled Spain from 1982 to 1996. It that time, former PM Gonzalez managed to have good relations with Reagan, George H. Bush and Margaret Thatcher, he full supported the coalition of GW1, and called and won a referendum to keep Spain in NATO (before taking power, he said he was going to pull Spain out of NATO, btw). Otherwise, his former foreign affairs minister, Javier Solana, was NATO's Secretary General at the time of NATO's bombing in Serbia. Will these guys have enough influence in Zapatero to change his stupid view of the world?, only God knows...
 
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NewGuy    RE:Attack in Spain probably not Al-Queda   3/24/2004 11:34:55 AM
"Typical American." We can do without the sterotypes, thank you. "ETA wants the Basque Region to be independent from Spain and be a democtratic nation." Murdering innocent men, women, and children is not a good way to show that you want a "democratic" state. ETA is a classic terrorist organization, no matter what their stated "goals" are. NewGuy
 
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celebrim    RE: The Reply from this 'Typical American'.   3/24/2004 11:58:21 AM
"How can someone be a communist if they support ETA?" Well, because ETA has always been tied closely to the communist party in Spain, which you would know if you examined thier history. For example: "Among the many activities in which he was involved as leader of the Basque Government, Aguirre played an extremely important role in the organization and development of Christian Democracy and the European Movement. Javier de Landaburu was a key figure in European Christian Democracy, a representative of the Basque Team, as Vice President of the Basque Government when Aguirre died, until his untimely death in 1963. Joseba de Rezola then took over power. THere was some preparation for armed struggle in 1945 when United States instructors trained some Basque groups and in the following year on the frontier under the auspices of Lino Lazkano. This prospect lasted until the Americans replaced their "antifascism" by "anticommunism". This was a product of the cold war and was the basic agreement between the Allied Forces and the Soviet Union. Here it was quite clear that who was favoured was Franco. The General Strike of 1947 came in the wake of the repression in 1945 and 1946 of the efforts of reconstitution of the Basque Nationalist Party and the ELA/STV. The strike broke out in Vizcaya and extended to Guipuzcoa and around 60,000 workers were involved. The Resistance Council spread the news around the world and informed the United Nations. The repression was extremely severe. The Basque socialists accepted the terms of the Iberian Confederation after the recent common struggle. "They confirmed even more vehemently their support of the Government and their respect for the Basque Nationalist Party." In 1947 Laureano Lasa published an article in the Gazette of the Centre for Socialist Studies of Euskadi, in which he emphasized the favourable attitude of the socialists towards the Iberian Confederation in the Congress of 1919, in the process of law of the Republic. Two months later, in September, Euskadi Socialista published an article signed by "E.G." stating in explicit terms that "the Basque Nationalist Party (EAJ/PNV) was the leading party in the Basque Country, that it was extremely popular and enjoyed support from all social classes. The prime task of the socialists was, therefore, to aim at reconciling in a suitable manner the Basque privilege with the prerrogatives of the Central State..." The Communist Party was forced to leave the Basque Government after its break with the Government of the Republic in 1947 with the attack on Indalecio Prieto, to whom the communists attributed a pro-American trend in the Atlantic Charter and in conversations with the monarchists regarding the possible substitution of Franco by Juan de Borbon. 1951 witnessed a strike involving 250,000 workers. The repression was extremely severe and dismembered the Basque organizations. The Americans broke the theoretical boycott of the democratic nations against Franco by granting him a loan of 62.5 million dollars in exchange for United States bases in Spain. ETA was born in the summer of 1959 out of EKIN and EG. When Lehendakari Aguirre died in 1960, some members of ETA were present at the funeral. The organization praised the new Lehendakari, Leizaola (No. 12 Zutik - Caracas). "Although ETA has broken off relations with the Basque Nationalist Party, it hopes to return to the great abertzale (patriots) party" (Zutik, April 1961 - special edition). The event of the unsuccessful derailing of the train occurred, marking the beginning of the second phase (Zutik - Bayonne - 20th November). The First Assembly began to prepare itself at the end of the summer of 1961 at a time when it had only a few militants. The Second Assembly was held in Landes, north of Bayonne in 1963. The Thrid and Fourth Assemblies: in the history of ETA the rifts in the organization generally represent important landmarks as each time a new Assembly formed. When there is a complete break, two new assemblies are established. Kemen was brought out as the internal publication of ETA and the organization changed its definition of "a patriotic non-confesionary movement" to "It is not possible for nationalism to be the sole basis for patriotic struggle", and "the close connection between the Basque bourgeoisie, the Franco regime and foreign oppression is highly condemned". "ETA's only arms are contacts with reality and its unreserved identification with the cause of the oppressed. Nothing else is needed in the struggle for the national and popular liberation of the Basque Country." From this point on an increasing emphasis on Marxist concepts can be observed. The organization began to make references to the "need to begin requisitioning to support the organization" (Zutik 32, August 1965). The Navarrese group "Tratxe" joined forces with ETA as "their ideas coincided one hundred per cent"; The Aberri-Eguna (Day of the Homeland) in 1966 was held on the bridges of Henda
 
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celebrim    RE: More on ETA   3/24/2004 12:24:53 PM
Try this link http://www.etext.org/Politics/Arm.The.Spirit/Guerrilla/Europe/ETA/eta-hist.asc And in particular, this section. "In 1962 a general strike was declared in Bizkaia and Gipuzkoa, which later extended to the rest of the state. A Bizkaian intellectual and exile in Northern Basque Country, Federico Krutwig, published his book "Vasconia", which strongly influenced ETA. According to Krutwig, guerrilla warfare was the only means of liberating Euskal Herria. In that same year, the group Enbata (strong seawind preceding a storm) emerged in the northern territories. The work of Enbata (and of its magazine of the same name) was crucial to the development of Basque consciouness in Northern Basque Country and the political support to the militants from the south. The future ETA assemblies took place in consecutive years: ETA II, in 1963; ETA III, in 1964; ETA IV, in 1965; and ETA V, between 1966 and 1967. All but the last two assemblies were celebrated in the north. ETA II hardly had an entity. ETA III approved the principles and methods for the revolutionary war of Basque liberation. ETA IV favored Marxism and saw the national and social problems as two aspects of the same Basque reality. ETA V combined national liberation with social liberation and "el pueblo trabajador vasco" (the Basque workers) became an important subject in the struggle for national liberation. Four action fronts were created: the cultural, the political, the workers, and the military). In the first meeting of the assembly, ETA decided to abandon the idea supported by some of its members, to turn the armed organization into a workers party within the Spanish orbit.
 
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celebrim    RE: And this....   3/24/2004 12:30:40 PM
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/1089/Basque.htm "The First Assembly produced a two page Statement of Principles. Demanding independence and unification of the French and Spanish Basque country in a democratic state which would guarantee freedom for all religions. The statement also supported a Federal Europe and declared that immigrants would neither be expelled nor segregated, as long as they did not act against the Basque national interest. Euskara would be the sole official language although French and Spanish would be recognised. Perhaps most importantly in view of the Spanish opposition to Basque independence is the principle that states that basic industries would be nationalised. Following various Assemblies an increasing emphasis on Marxist concepts could be observed. The Navarrese group Tratxe joined forces with ETA and in 1966 the Aberri-Eguna (Day of the Homeland) was held on the bridges of Hendaye in order to emphasise a break from the folklorist tradition of the Basque Nationalist Part." Gee, ETA set out as a founding principal that industries in the homeland would be nationalized and made the property of the state? I _wonder_ how a 'typical American' could construe that to be communism?
 
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Tercio    RE: And this....   3/24/2004 12:58:11 PM
celebrim, excellent summary. I'd add that ETA's definition of "not to act against the Basque national interest" is to fully support ETA's postulates. Any disagreement with ETA's objetives makes you an enemy of the "Basque national interest", no matter if you're Basque or not. So, North Korea and Albania in the good old times are fine examples of "democracy".
 
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Tercio    RE:Attack in Spain   3/24/2004 1:03:29 PM
... in the eyes of ETA. I forgot this part in my last post, sorry.
 
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Tercio    RE:Attack in Spain   3/24/2004 1:03:31 PM
... in the eyes of ETA. I forgot this part in my last post, sorry.
 
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Condor Legion    RE:Attack in Spain - Brim   3/24/2004 6:46:27 PM
Celebrim: Nice job and thank you. CL.
 
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SGTObvious    RE:Spain Implications. Oh, priceless.   3/25/2004 7:59:21 AM
Carbuff: "still think Spain will fight the war in terror, but as the new PM said, it will have to be multilateral" AK: "You mean Spain was fighting terrorism unilaterally before?" Carbuff: "You know what I mean." Oh, Indeed we do! But you sure as heck don't mean "multilateral". As Inigo* said in Princess Bride: "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means." *Appropriately, the Spaniard.
 
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