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Subject: Is Islamic terrorism just a social issue or a deep rooted trend??
Herc the merc    1/20/2005 6:29:26 PM
IMHO Islamic terrorism of recent years can be better explaind by Freud, Jung and whatever social psychologists we have now as opposed to some deep rooted cultural trait as claimed by so many. Barring the the years since Oil and Israel and USA came into the Islamic worlds sphere is there any historical precedence for Islamic terrorism as opposed to Christrian, Jew and Hindu spread the love style. Are we to quick to blame the religion and culture when well we could be part of the problem?? Thoughts.....
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Herc the merc    RE:Is Islamic terrorism just a social issue or a deep rooted trend??   1/20/2005 6:32:35 PM
I want to take back the line "when well we could be part of the problem", and rephrase to imply perhaps there is something amiss in that region (Islamic countries) ie lack of education, bad leadership, bad cult type sub-cultures, whatever??
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Vapid    RE:Is Islamic terrorism just a social issue or a deep rooted trend??   1/24/2005 10:44:20 AM
Fundamental fanaticism has been around probably since humans began to have a cognitive thinking process (not claiming any psych degree, just my thoughts). Ralph Peters stated that “The globalization of information” was/is the cause. Or one could say the “globalization of misinformation”, would make more sense. The conspiracy nuts have a greater effect against those less educated, so I would have to agree with his conclusion. It’s a very good read. I have posted it several times before. Vapid
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American Kafir    RE:Is Islamic terrorism just a social issue or a deep rooted trend??   1/24/2005 4:30:27 PM
If we define "terrorism" as "the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion," as the Merriam-Webster dictionary does, then in the case of Islamic culture, it's a deep rooted trend, traceable in history to Muhammad and his followers' terror raids on defenseless Meccan caravans that led to the battle of Badr on up through Muhammad Atta and his fellow pious Muslims'fulfillment of Quranic dogma in the killing of infidels where they found them in the World Trade Center, flying, as they did, in the way of Allah.
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Vapid    RE:Is Islamic terrorism just a social issue or a deep rooted trend??   1/26/2005 3:34:01 PM
But lets be fair, right AK? All cultures are guilty of coercion at some point or another, well except maybe the French (they can never do any wrong, and then there's the Swiss, always neutral). But in AK's defense against myself (Damnit! If Foilhats isn't wearing off on me, and I am starting to develope multiple personalities), Islam (as a whole) hasn't ever really taken a day off from being an aggressive culture. Vapid
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bsl    RE:Herc   1/26/2005 9:00:54 PM
Study Muslim history before making sweeping comments about what characterizes or doesn't characterize the culture. If you want hints about where to start, you might spend some time reading up on terms such as "ghazi", "shaheed", 'mujahadeen", "hudnah", "the old man of the mountains", and "jihad". Be especially careful to look into their history. Don't stop at a definition from a dictionary. When you reach the point where you understand how insulting muslims would find the claim you made in your first posting, you're on your way.
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Herc the merc    RE:Herc   1/27/2005 12:06:10 PM
Sir/Ma'am BSL- I have never insulted Islam or Moslems. This is a fairly objective question. If it makes you feel better this question could apply to all religions, cults existent at this time. Since the Middle East, 9/11, India-Pakistan, Israel-Palestine issues occupy the headlines where the one of the core party is of the Moslem religion and seems to act in the name of religion the question would be relevant as of the year 2005. In fact the question is sympathetic to Moslems wherein I am not labelling all Moslems as terrorists etc etc. And if you read my posts perhaps you would replace Bush and vote for me- to the alarm of some people here nonetheless.
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jastayme3    RE:Is Islamic terrorism just a social issue or a deep rooted trend??   2/15/2005 12:55:19 AM
If we define "terrorism" as "the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion," ------------------------------------ I think we need a better definition. For one thing "terror" means the same as fear and, by definition fear is the main means of coersion. For another all societies have to use coersion to exist-even throwing a drunk in a lockup for trashing a bar is a type of coersion. I usually say that "terrorism" is "taking part in a violent underground political conspiracy that rejects the normally established conventions of war in it's practices". It is not exact but it does describe what most of us think of when we think of the word "terrorist"
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sentinel28a    RE:Is Islamic terrorism just a social issue or a deep rooted trend??   2/15/2005 12:16:24 PM
I think it's a combination of both. If social conditions in most Islamic societies were better, then I don't think we would see the level of terrorism that we do. Before anyone has a Ward Churchill moment, it's not the West's fault--most of the problem with Islamic societies in trouble, especially in Africa and the Arab world, are self-inflicted. Dictators and kings telling their people it's all Israel's/America's/the West's fault while robbing them blind is clearly NOT the fault of the "Zionist entity." The Islamic societies that are doing well or fairly well--Turkey, Morocco, Jordan, and the Gulf Kingdoms come to mind--are ones who rolled up their sleeves and tackled the problems facing their societies head on. When fundie Islam reared its ugly head, they slapped it down quick; Ataturk crushed the Muslim Brotherhood, while King Hussein let the PLO have it between the eyes in 1970. Note that these nations are also ones which have a semblance of or genuine democracy--good news for Iraq, if things continue to work out there. People who are doing well, making enough money to feed their kids, and have a self-satisfying job tend not to want to blow themselves up in the name of Allah. However, I also think that it's rooted in Islam itself. Throughout its history, Islam has been far more willing to settle its problems with a sword than words. It was founded in violence. Yet I don't think the problem is with Mohammed or the Koran; the problem is with how people interpret it. Nutcases like Tim McVeigh can find a Bible passage that they then use an excuse to kill children. Imams can twist and turn a phrase from the Koran to suit their own ends, and because they are the voice that screams the loudest and says what the people want to hear--that their problems are due to "Western oppression" and not their own fault or the faults of their governments--they are listened to. Moderate Muslim clerics are not, because they don't find an excuse. If half these fanatic idiots would actually read the Koran rather than cherrypick what they already agree with, they would not do have the things they do. Reading Mohammed Atta's manifesto is like reading a sick joke, or more like the Wannsee Protocol. I'm reminded of John Blackthorne's line from Shogun: "Poor God, the stupidities He's blamed for." What Islam desperately needs is a Reformation. Perhaps we're seeing that now, or maybe we have to wait for some Saudi cleric to nail some theses to the door of the Dome of the Rock.
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sentinel28a    Luther's Theses   2/18/2005 4:16:04 AM
Coincidentally, just after posting the last post on this thread, I picked up a book by a female Islamic scholar (though she doesn't consider herself a scholar, I do) named Irshad Manji. The book's named "The Trouble With Islam Today." It's an absolutely superb book; I'll probably be referencing it for awhile, and can't recommend it enough. She has the courage to hit readers between the eyes with some hard truths about Islam--echoing some of the sentiments of posters here like Swhitebull and American Kafir, believe it or not. I wrote in the last post that what an Islamic Reformation might take is a Saudi cleric nailing theses to the door of the Dome of the Rock. I was wrong about the Saudi cleric--seems the nailer is an Islamic lesbian, born in Uganda and raised in Canada. Fancy that.
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kommando    RE:Is Islamic terrorism just a social issue or a deep rooted trend??   3/5/2005 9:02:46 AM
i think it is a jealous reaction of the lazy and good for nothing people..they cannot build anything so what do they do?'s a pattern fimiliar to all those countries having islamic neighbhour hood nations like pakistan afghanistan Arabs etc... visit
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