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Subject: What will happen when European fright over Islamic fundamentalism reaches critical mass?
Scorpene    7/16/2005 1:14:24 PM
If I could mainly get some replies from Europeans on this one, it would be icing on the cake. By all indicators, Islamic power in Europe, particularly the Continent, is on the rise. France and Germany and the Netherlands all have been in the news due to various disturbances and acts of terrorism and murder. I used to say that if I was a Russian defense planner I would be going nuts-- but I would rather be a Russian defense planner than someone who was charged with figuring out how to keep Europe from a religious and social upheaval the likes of which haven't been seen since the Middle Ages between Islam and the West. My perception of Europe is that at some point in the future, if things continue to worsen (and it appears they will) the Europeans may just decide to do what must be done to fix things, even if that means some serious bloodshed. Forced deportations, preventative internment, or numerous nonsociable calls by GSG-9 and GIGN or similar. Or, perhaps even worse. Now, I am NOT judging the Europeans. The U.S. has no situation like this-- our Mexican border problem is tame by comparison in my opinion, as Mexicans and all have generally assimilated acceptably; I am not trying to say what Europe should or should not do. I am asking what Europe will do, if indeed the situation continues to escalate. No moral judgements or talking down here. Just the facts. Europe is in for a rough ride, and I don't envy them. Period.
 
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taylorjohn21    RE:Accuracy again response again to appleciderus    8/7/2005 4:56:19 AM
Regarding fuel efficiency of European/US car see question below; European Micro Cars: Why can't we buy those fuel-efficient, well-designed, easy-to-park European cars here in the U.S.? taken from the following weblink; http://www.askquestions.org/details.php?id=17 On the question of scientific progress in the treatment of cancer enormous strides have been made recently (in the area of human DNA)- surely something could be done about finding an alternative to fuel too? Not a particularly good comparison I know, but in WW2, the Germans alleviated their fuel shortage somewhat, by synthetic oil production. Any political/military support which the US gives to Saudi Arabia as a whole will inevitably benefit the numerous extremists within the Saudi government as well. Hamas was originally set up with funds from Saudi Arabia. True, Iran and Syria have funded suicide bombing against Israel as well, mainly through Islamic Jihad (I think). A lot financial of aid which the European Union donated to the Palestinians actually found its way into Swiss bank accounts. Notwithstanding Palestinian protests about Jewish settlements in the West-bank and Gaza strip the Israeli government used to actually pay the Palestinian Authority for building homes in these disputed areas. Some of this money no doubt was then passed onto Palestinian families to fund suicide bombings against Israel at a later stage! No doubt too that a lot of the money which the US consumer spends on oil imported from the Middle East is used to fund extremist groups which then attack the US in various forms 7/11, constant suicide attacks on US forces in Iraq and other things as well!!!!
 
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Pseudonym    RE:Accuracy again response again to appleciderus    8/7/2005 6:56:53 AM
"Any political/military support which the US gives to Saudi Arabia as a whole will inevitably benefit the numerous extremists within the Saudi government as well." Actually the oil money is what goes to the extremists. The Military aid was in the form of weaponry, which helped us offset Saddam. The political aid was to the Pro western factions in Saudi which are trying to push reforms. The situation sucks a big fat dick and no one likes it. Only the foolish act before they are prepared. Taking down Saudi Arabia and starting a fuel crisis is not a good idea. I mean we could just go out and punish everyone like we want to, but that would just inflame public opinion in the Middle East and make the problem ten times worse. Attacking the center of Islam is not the best of idea's unless we are prepared to turn into Hitler. "Hamas was originally set up with funds from Saudi Arabia. True, Iran and Syria have funded suicide bombing against Israel as well, mainly through Islamic Jihad (I think). A lot financial of aid which the European Union donated to the Palestinians actually found its way into Swiss bank accounts. Notwithstanding Palestinian protests about Jewish settlements in the West-bank and Gaza strip the Israeli government used to actually pay the Palestinian Authority for building homes in these disputed areas. Some of this money no doubt was then passed onto Palestinian families to fund suicide bombings against Israel at a later stage!" Today's terrorist is tomorrow's leader of a Middle Eastern country. "No doubt too that a lot of the money which the US consumer spends on oil imported from the Middle East is used to fund extremist groups which then attack the US in various forms 7/11, constant suicide attacks on US forces in Iraq and other things as well!!!!" So do you have a workable plan to wean the American Consumer of Middle Eastern oil? Any idea how to change our oil based society without plunging ourselves and most likely the rest of the world into a massive Economic Depression? Why sit and point at a problem that everyone knows exists if you have possible solutions to discuss. The problem is known, it is the solution we want.
 
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eon    RE:Accuracy again response again to appleciderus    8/7/2005 7:05:28 AM
""Today's terrorist is tomorrow's Mideast leader."" Ditto for Africa, South America, and parts of the Far East. It seems to be one of those "cultural things" we're not allowed to criticze these days, for fear of provoking what P.J. O'Rourke calls a "massive Donna Shalala explosion". IMHO, this is yet another reason for nuclear power. We need to be able to stop having to try doing business with >any< of these "nations". At the very least, we might be able to reduce their available funds to buy AK-47s, RPGs, and "Death To (Your Name Here)" T-shirts.
 
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Dingo    RE:Accuracy again response again to appleciderus    8/7/2005 9:56:12 AM
>So do you have a workable plan to wean the American Consumer of Middle Eastern >oil? Let the free market do it. If the US stopped subsidizing the price of oil, I have no doubt that the consumption of oil would go down through the use of more efficient vehicles. Whenever a government subsidizes a commodity problems erupt. The price of oil should factor in the cost of the first Gulf war, stationing troops in the Middle East for the last ten years, maintaining no fly zones over Iraq, etc. I have also been told, although I do not know the details, that the US tax code provides favorable treatment for oil companies in many ways which do not benefit other industries.
 
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Pseudonym    RE:Accuracy again response again to appleciderus    8/7/2005 7:13:21 PM
So basically you are saying, if you take away the middle man, the world will suddenly stop using the drug called oil. Well there will still be suppliers and users. Hmmm. Still gonna be an oil problem. Like i said before, sit back for the next twenty years, and watch the hydrogen fuel cell technology slowly become reality. Good things take time.
 
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timon_phocas    RE:What will happen when European fright over Islamic fundamentalism reaches critical mass?   8/10/2005 1:06:11 PM
I think the French have a few advantages in this. They do believe in, and teach respect for their own country and culture. This is very important. They have competent internal intelligence and police organizations.
 
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NeroDelGetto    RE:What will happen when European fright over Islamic fundamentalism reaches critical mass?   8/11/2005 3:58:51 PM
France will become the first western islamic nation. Already france has 10% islamic population and that is increasing rapidly. By the end of the century, europeans will be a minority in europe, eventually being outnumbered by islamic arabs.
 
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paul1970    RE:What will happen when European fright over Islamic fundamentalism reaches critical mass?   8/11/2005 6:15:38 PM
crikey! that is one hell of a reproductive rate... are all us Europeans emmigrating then?????? I also thought about going to Australia for the warmth but the you have to live with all those convicts... guess it will have to be the Kiwi's...... all in good taste....
 
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