Military History | How To Make War | Wars Around the World Rules of Use How to Behave on an Internet Forum
Terrorism Discussion Board
   Return to Topic Page
Subject: Helios crash- unconfirmed rumor-
Herc the Merc    8/16/2005 4:22:39 PM
It seems the rumor is the F-16's shot it down- 2 men were seen in the pit trying to grab control of the plane. Any reports??
Quote    Reply

Show Only Poster Name and Title     Newest to Oldest
Bob    RE:Helios crash- unconfirmed rumor-   8/16/2005 6:31:47 PM
dunno about the shoot down, but saw the rumor that there were two people in the pit maybe trying to take control. could've just been passengers trying to help out.
Quote    Reply

eon    RE:Helios crash- unconfirmed rumor-   8/17/2005 9:48:56 PM
According to FNC and AP (yesterday), two RHAF F-16s were scrambled when the plane went off course and failed to respond to radio calls. Upon intercept, they pulled alongside to look in the pit, and saw the pilot slumped in his seat (unconscious or dead), and no copilot. After the crash, autopsy reports showed that at least five people on board were still alive, but most likely unconscious, at impact. The majority of the 121 Souls On Board were already dead, as rigor had already onset, too early for death due to the crash itself, plus lung edema consistent with decompression. No evidence of lung tissue damage due to heat or smoke inhalation was found except in those five cases, indicating that the others were >not< breathing when the plane impacted and the fuel tanks detonated. (I saw the fire on Fox News- it was >not< a small one.) There >may< have been some effort at some point by cabin crew to enter the (locked) flight deck, but it apparently was ineffective, most likely due to the cabin crew (flight attendants) succumbing to hypoxia along with everyone else. This was an accident, pure and simple, apparently due to a recurring malfunction in the aircraft's pressurization system. Instead of repeating rumors about shootdowns that have >no< basis in fact, we should be asking Helios Air two very simple questions; Why wasn't this problem dealt with properly when it apparently first surfaced, last year? And if it could >not< be rectified, >why< was this aircraft not taken out of service? Cheers. eon.
Quote    Reply

Herc the Merc    RE:Helios crash- unconfirmed rumor-eon   8/18/2005 6:10:53 PM
The plane was checked by British companies & deemed airworthy. Also pilots had independent Oxy tanks under seat, no lunch was served too... per report, note 18% of Cyproits are Moslem & a lot of the passangers were US cits.
Quote    Reply

lightningtest    RE:Helios crash- unconfirmed rumor   8/19/2005 8:35:58 AM
Distribution of debris on the ground should confirm if midair explosion occured + type/location of explosion. I don't see that the shoot down theory and the accidental decompression with five innocent survivors theory are mutually incompatible. Would a typical F16 missile cause aircraft to disintegrate at altitude? Have to wait a couple of years for the report to find out....however debka article did note wide distribution of debris.
Quote    Reply

Pseudonym    RE:Helios crash- unconfirmed rumor-   8/19/2005 4:07:33 PM
How many unconfirmed rumors does Herc come up with? Shouldn't he have said, Unconfirmed rumor that i just made up
Quote    Reply

DarthAmerica    RE:Helios crash- unconfirmed rumor-   8/28/2005 4:06:33 PM
Why even mention the F-16s if you wante to cover up a shootdown? Just say the plane crashed and all lives were tragically loss. The cause could be anything from bird strike, lightning bad maintenance or whatever. Just anything other than F-16s being anywhere near that plane IF you wanted to hide something. Conspiracy just doesnt add up.
Quote    Reply

lightningtest       10/18/2006 1:46:01 PM

"...At 10:21 h, the aircraft flew over the KEA VOR, then over the Athens International Airport, and subsequently entered the KEA VOR holding pattern at 10:38 h. At 11:24 h, during the sixth holding pattern, the Boeing 737 was intercepted by two F-16 aircraft of the Hellenic Air Force. One of the F-16 pilots observed the aircraft at close range and reported at 11:32 h that the Captain’s seat was vacant, the First Officer’s seat was occupied by someone who was slumped over the controls, the passenger oxygen masks were seen dangling and three motionless passengers were seen seated wearing oxygen masks in the cabin. No external damage or fire was noted and the aircraft was not responding to radio calls. At 11:49 h, he reported a person not wearing an oxygen mask entering the cockpit and occupying the Captain’s seat. The F-16 pilot tried to attract his attention without success. At 11:50 h, the left engine flamed out due to fuel depletion and the aircraft started descending. At 11:54 h, two MAYDAY messages were recorded on the CVR."
"At 12:00 h, the right engine also flamed out at an altitude of approximately 7 100 ft. The aircraft continued descending rapidly and impacted hilly terrain at 12:03 h in the vicinity of Grammatiko village, Hellas, approximately 33 km northwest of the Athens International Airport. The 115 passengers and 6 crew members on board were fatally injured. The aircraft was destroyed.... "
My take on media and released portions of report into this event is that lots is(quite rightly) said about the causes of the situation which would eventually have killed all on board (not least EASA being not fit for task in its oversight role).  Little is said about what caused the a/c to decend so fast 1 minute after a nearby f-16 pilot noted non-crew member at controls.  One thing immeadiatly sticks out in this report as odd;
"At 11:49 h, [F-16 pilot] reported a person not wearing an oxygen mask entering the cockpit and occupying the Captain’s seat. The F-16 pilot tried to attract his attention without success."
What is the criteria defining success when attempting communicate between a/c in that way?  Given that VHF/UHF comms may not be able to be used by untrained souls and morse code is long forgotton by most people.
What is the consequence of failing to communicate with a F-16 intercepting?
No blame is intended to be thrown by this message but the public have a right to know the RoE when they board a civil a/c nowerdays......
Quote    Reply