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Subject: It Starts - Is France Ready? - The Muslim Riots outside of Paris
swhitebull    11/2/2005 9:35:20 PM
How will France respond to this? More from National Review: GLOOM & DOOM ON THE SEINE [Jonah Goldberg] From a reader waxing Derbish: Most people are averting their eyes from this, for the simple reason that it is too horrible to contemplate. Probably 10% of the French population is Moslem; if this is what happens in a country where the children of Mohammed reach or exceed that percentage, then all of Europe is going to be going down the same road in the next five years. Nobody working for any magazine or newspaper or network really wants to contemplate this, because among other things it means that the very idea of muliticulturalism is simply wrong: there are some cultures that cannot co-exist with such fundamental Western concepts as "free speech". Given that multiculturalism is itself a fundamental piece of the liberal world view, giving it up is very much akin to giving up one's religion, faith in Mom's apple pie, or something equally basic. I suspect that some people will literally prefer to risk death over giving up their faith in multiculteralism. Unhappily for the rest of us, the riots in France, the situation in parts of Malmo, and other indicators in Europe strongly suggest that by refusing to give up the multi-culti dream, they are causing all of the rest of us to risk death as well. Did you read Frum's column today? How about McCarthy's? If not, take a few moments and do so, and let McCarthy's last question rattle around for a while... FRANCE AGONISTES [Jonah Goldberg] I haven't posted anything on it because, well, I dunno why. But I think the French riots are fascinating, disturbing, important and a sign of troubles to come. I was listening to the BBC in the car this afternoon and some folks are really likening it to a full on rebellion, using words like sedition and whatnot. The French has a big complicated problem on their hands and my guess is things will get even uglier before things get better. RE: FRANCE AGONISTES [Rod Dreher] Jonah, I got an e-mail today from a friend in Paris subject-lined, "It's started." He was referring to the Muslim riots in the Parisian suburbs. This is something that the French have anticipated for a long time, and planned for. I don't think the French authorities are going to put up with this for much longer, and I would guess that if things don't settle down in a couple of days, we will see the authorities move in with serious force. The rest of Europe has got to be watching all this amid shudders. We all should be. Your reader is quite right: elites in this country -- especially those of us who work in the MSM -- refuse to ask the hard questions about Islam and the West because we are afraid that the answers will shatter the icon of multiculturalism. As the Dutch learned one year ago today when Theo van Gogh was ritually slaughtered by a Muslim extremist on an Amsterdam street, reality eventually has a way of grabbing one by the scruff of one's neck and rubbing one's nose in it. And good old National Public radio being politically correct on the Islamic menace within France: DITTO ROD'S POINT @ FRENCH RIOTING [Meghan Cox Gurdon] Earlier this evening I listened to an NPR report about the French riots, and it wasn't until well into the reported piece-- not in the intro, not in the first 2 minutes of the piece -- that there was the slightest mention of who, actually, was rioting. When it came, it referred to the rioters, saying "their parents came to France from North Africa in the decades following the second world war.." It was all phrased according to the usual "failure of french society to assimilate..." model. Man. Speechwriter David "Axis of Evil" Frum: HIghlight:Muslims find it difficult to assume minority status in a majority non-Muslim society. More than other minority communities, they constantly, sometimes subconsciously, strive to redress the balance and assume an expanding and dominant position in their host countries.” Like a plague of locusts, devouring everything in their paths. And finally, ANdrew McCarthy, the man who put the Blind Sheikh from WTC 1 in jail: Anything unclear about this coming plague, worse than the avian flu perhaps? Dhimmitude awaits thoses that dont fight back - ask the Indians, or all of the Jews and Christians in Arab lands today. swhitebull
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sanman    RE:It Starts - Is France Ready? - The Muslim Riots outside of Paris   11/5/2005 3:21:06 AM
The relevant phrase here is "HA! HA! HA!" The French have taken the lead in trying to castigate "Islamophobia" and in appeasing the Islamists, whose voracious appetite is inherently insatiable. With their constant placating and rationalizing of Islamist agit-prop, they are now aghast to find themselves under seige from those whom they've been defending. Now once again another French Maginot Line has been trampled with such ease, so as to be shown to be a complete mirage. The French seem to excel in building Castles in the Sky, Maginot Lines, and other dangerous self-delusions that get them into a pickle. As they now scream "Help! Help! Au secours!" it's hard to see who's going to give them their D-Day. Unless D stands for Dhimmi. This is what happens to those who turn a blind eye to Ummahgration. Now the French are upto their eyeballs in Ummahgrants, and they don't know what to do.
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Panther    RE:It Starts - Is France Ready? - The Muslim Riots outside of Paris   11/5/2005 6:49:42 AM
I dunno... the irony of the situation is saddening. From other news reports, the dutch are just about up to their eyeballs as well, with this type of crap! I've often heard of the liberal term of describing 9-11 as blowback, in regards to america's foreign policies. But, this takes the cake... multi-culturalism blowback, we've all seen this one coming a thousand miles away! I really don't feel like gloating much at the moment, while another country is down. This is deadly serious stuff...
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mudshark    RE:It Starts - Is France Ready? - The Muslim Riots outside of Paris   11/5/2005 1:15:44 PM
Well said panther. your post is an indication of character.
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flamingknives    RE:It Starts - Is France Ready? - The Muslim Riots outside of Paris   11/5/2005 1:52:13 PM
Of course, there is the possibility that the multiculturists were right and this is all a backlash against conservative intolerance.
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PlatypusMaximus    RE:It Starts - Is France Ready? - The Muslim Riots outside of Paris   11/5/2005 4:47:50 PM
Backlash against intolerance? Am I reading that wrong???
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flamingknives    RE:It Starts - Is France Ready? - The Muslim Riots outside of Paris   11/5/2005 5:20:20 PM
Backlash against intolerance? Am I reading that wrong??? Well, you missed a word out, but that seems to be the gist of it. If you like, you can read the whole thing again. Of course, there is the possibility that the multiculturists were right and this is all a backlash against conservative intolerance. If you still don't get it, perhaps you could phrase the question more clearly?
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Arbalest    RE:It Starts - Is France Ready? - The Muslim Riots outside of Paris   11/5/2005 7:04:03 PM
The multi-culturists are wrong. This is not a backlash against conservative intolerance, it is an attack on Western Civilization and Culture. One has only to look at the immigration rates, legal and illegal, into Europe, and the length to which people will go to enter Europe, to see that discrimination and intolerance are non-issues to the immigrants. Spain is experiencing problems right now with its North African territory, and even with people crossing the Mediterranean. Consider also the lengths to which immigrants will fight deportation. There’s this cleric in France ..... The multi-culturists continuously ignore the treatment of non-Muslim minorities in Muslim countries. Darfur, southern Sudan, East Timor, northern Nigeria, Afghanistan under the Taliban, Egyptian Copts and Indonesian Christians holding prayer meetings in their homes, are a few current examples that come to mind. Historical examples include the Muslim conquest of Palestine, Persia, Egypt and North Africa, Spain, and India. We should not forget the Muslim invasions of France (more than one) a century or two before the Crusades, and Turkish conquest in the Balkans a century or two after the Crusades (we all know how and from whom Janissaries were recruited). Life for non-Muslims in these areas highlights institutionalized intolerance and discrimination. About one thousand years ago, Islamic culture was the highest achievement of culture, or at least tied with China, India and Byzantium, and Islam confirms this. For the Arabs and Islamic civilization to be inferior to anyone else is not religiously permissible. For centuries, only Muslim armies were encouraged to travel to non-Muslim lands, not merchants, scholars, etc. But something went wrong some time ago (there are books on this subject), and now oil is their only source of wealth. The usual situation of Muslims dominating/replacing the local culture has become something of a problem in Europe. The immigrants haven’t really been trying to integrate into European culture; they’ve been trying to live in their own culture yet benefit from European economics (jobs, welfare, etc. There's the same cleric in France ......). Now there’s a big problem.
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PowerPointRanger    Exit Strategy   11/6/2005 2:46:36 AM
I wonder, what is the French exit stategy for these current riots? Will they follow their own advice and set a time-table for withdrawing from Paris?
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sanman    RE:Exit Strategy   11/6/2005 2:58:34 AM
Nah, they will set up a Vichy govt to demonstrate solidarity with the rioters and help them burn some synagogues. Gaullists will set up a govt in exile, asking for military help in reclaiming the capital. Meanwhile, the US congress will vote to change Freedom Fries to Flamebait Fries in honor of the these past several fiery nights.
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flamingknives    RE:It Starts - Is France Ready? - The Muslim Riots outside of Paris   11/6/2005 6:42:40 AM
Immigrants don't want to get sent back? I'm not surprised. Some of the countries they come from are hardly paragons of virtue. That they tend to be a bit insular isn't a surprise either. It's a new country, unfamiliar and in some cases quite hostile. Some of the French can be so racist that they make people in this thread look cuddly and liberal. Much of the hostility seems to be generated by social exclusion, rather than some overarching plan. The rise and fall of Islamic scholarship is quite interesting - there was a documentary on the BBC (I know, that evil communist corporation) on the Moors in Spain. Some of the points were: * The expansionist creed is an arabic cultural characteristic * The 'invasions' of Europe were, in some cases, quite positive * The European Moors were less fundamental in their application of Islam - some of the more hardline desert tribes who came to aid them against the Christians were shocked by their relaxed laws. * Early Islamic scholarship was very inclusive - they held what I would call a very English view - and they had no problems with incorporating foreign views and ideas into their own. * The conflicts in Spain and France ended up as little more than a civil war with religion delineating the sides. IMHO, this growth in learning led to an arrogance that led to them dismissing foreign views, and now they have collapsed into a theocracy that lashes out at those who are different. (I've read about something like that somewhere before) Of course, your average muslim is just a person. People, when disenfranchised, tend to resort to extremeist ideologies. Which is what we're seeing. IMHO, naturally.
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