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Subject: you can NEVER stop terror by fighting
kane    11/12/2005 9:50:18 AM
you can NEVER stop terror by fighting.killing will not stop them it will make them more powerful. think if whole iraq becomes a are u gonna stop them. bush thinks he can stop them by fighting. as a citizen from a country(TURKEY) that fights aganist terror, i say that you can't stop it by fighting.we've been fighting aganist pkk for twent years.we killed too many but they are still growing.we must take to kurds to our side to stop PKK. BUSH should do the same to stop terror and the only thing he can do is to retreat.iraq won't forget this but terrorism will be slowed down.
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RaptorZ    RE:RaptorZ   2/21/2006 5:53:24 PM
"Unlike Turkey; USA and West in general is new in this fight. So, please do not try to sell your racist "all muslims are evil" crap to me." A typical response to try to alter the truth. Calling me a racist...nice. I'm sorry but when govt's allow 1000's of people for days/weeks on end to openly declare death to (insert any western country here) THEY'RE THE F*r's that are Racist. You can hide behind the fact that you think it's everyone's fault but your own, but I know the US didn't start it, Denmark didn't start it, France didn't start it, need I go on? Now as for Turkey, where's the protest in the news, on the streets about how wrong their allies are being treated? and if you noticed, I said where's the Love or Respect being taught? Seems to me it's all about death.....and I'm the racist? Get over yourself....I pry have more friends of different ethnicities and religions than you'll ever have...and you dare try to side step the truth with the race card...weak comeback imo...
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RaptorZ    Pars   2/21/2006 6:00:17 PM
That below was to you, and perhaps I come across as a jag bag, but in all honesty I want the Muslm community to take control of this. I know all Muslims are not terrorists, only an idiot would say so, there's white/black/yellow etc terrorists too. But you must understand the frustration towards the large community that Islam has and the relative silence about the issues. Why doesn't a Martin Luthar King of the Muslim world stand up? Is he/she afraid of being killed? I don't get it, if peace is what they want then take the lead....why do we even have to be there in the first place...This is my frustration.
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RaptorZ    Just as an example of what I am talking about   2/21/2006 11:06:07 PM
Arab Americans see bigotry behind ports uproar Tue Feb 21, 2006 3:14 PM ET By Alan Elsner WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Arab-Americans contended on Tuesday that bias and bigotry, not security concerns, lay behind the uproar over a deal that would place commercial operations at six U.S. ports in the hands of an Arab company. ---------------------------------------- Now while I agree with the President that UAE should be allowed this, I find it interesting that here we have the Arab Americans in an uproar about this, yet I dont' think I've ever read this much of an opinion from these groups on terrorism. Again, sorry if I was misconstrued as a jerk...but this is exactly the stuff that just seems wrong on so many levels.
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trustedsourceofinfo    RE:FaRtwas!   2/22/2006 3:39:47 AM
Well,obviously you have two problems clearly? 1.You do not seem to understand simple English-The question was whether any Fatwas was issued against Bin Laden for being UNIslamic?I dont care whether fatwas are recognised in your country after 1924 or not.... They were recognised prior to 1924 and you cannot give ny guarantee that fatwas wont be back in vogue in Turkey in another 24 yrs? 2."So for Turks every fatwa since 1924 are false, crap." -->So fatwas before 1924 are honored??? Anyways,Dude-the ground reality is that fatwas are being issued at the rate of abt 200 per day.Most of them with murderous intentions... And some of these being issued by these Islamic bastards from my country,India.... Also,can you please tell me why 37 were killed in Sivas ,Turkey 4 years after the fatwa was issued by Khomeni against rushdie...Sometime in Jul 93... Please recollect and enlighten the readers...
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kane    RE:FaRtwas!   2/22/2006 8:33:26 AM
"1.You do not seem to understand simple English-The question was whether any Fatwas was issued against Bin Laden for being UNIslamic?I dont care whether fatwas are recognised in your country after 1924 or not.... They were recognised prior to 1924 and you cannot give ny guarantee that fatwas wont be back in vogue in Turkey in another 24 yrs?" i think he meant you shouldn't blame muslims.Caliphate is finished so they have nothing official in it. Yes there were fatwas in Ottomans which caused trouble in empire,they were used to make citizens obey the rules without making trouble.yes ottomans were a bit more religious (of course religion was free) but they weren't psycho like arabs. There were fatwas aganist the new Turkish government(by last Ottoman traitors) TBMM answered this with a fatwa.After setting up the government and beating emperialists Turks put an end to caliphate and Ottoman emperor(sacked from country) approval of democracy........
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Pars    RE:RaptorZ   2/22/2006 4:59:32 PM
When did you read a Turkish newspaper or watch a Turkish news channel? The Turkish response to these Islamic radicals are on them constantly. I did not say that the West have started it. USA simply supported Islamic radicals at 70's and 80's against communism. Maybe it did not occurred to you that Taliban in Afghanistan were using many American made weapons. How did they get them? Turkey is fighting against Islamic radicalism since 1924. When did USA start fighting against them? In the 90's?. No my response was a simple truth. I challenge you to prove that USA's fight against Islamic radicals is not a new thing. I shared your dislike to Islamic radicalism. I agree that they are bunch of maniacs. But your racism and their racism is same to me. As they are both directed at me.
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Pars    RE:Pars   2/22/2006 5:07:37 PM
That is exactly my point. There are many Muslims who are against violance from Islamic radicals. They are not afraid and they are talking against it. You simply can not see them in the News of your country because they are not seen as News material in your country. A terrorist is simply more news-worthy than a peace-man. The sad thing is there are many American muslims living in USA who are very loyal to their country and some of them are serving in US army. This rising anti-Muslim behaviour in USA is hurting them greatly. I, myself simply get sick of "why people keep asking if it is okay in my religion to kill a non-muslim" when I visit USA. No, hell. It is not okay in my religion to kill anyone. My religion and my ancestors teach me to love people whatever their background is. How and when Americans been propagated against Islam so deeply?
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Pars    RE:FaRtwas!   2/22/2006 5:26:08 PM
Trustedsourceinfo. You clearly did not understand what I was saying. 1. Every fatwa since 1924 are unislamic. Theorically only an official selected by a Caliphate can declare a fatwa. When there is no Caliphate, there is no fatwa. Turkey did abolish Caliphate at 1924 and will never ever accept a recreation of Caliphate. That is why Islamic radicals hate Turkey so much. As recreation of the Caliphate is one of their top objectives. 2. I think you misunderstand what a fatwa is. A fatwa is simply an interpreation of a religious matter by the highest religious authority. That authority was the Caliphate in Sunni Islam which is not in existance now. For Shias the highest authority was Humeyni, so they accepted his fatwas. I do not know who became their top religious official after Humeyni died. The highest authority in Wahhabi sect was their head Seyh. Now that guy is our real enemy as the core Al-Queda leaders are following his teachings. At Sivas at 90's some Islamic radicals has burned down an Hotel which had many writers and poets who came to the city for a festival. 37 of them died. That festival was to honour one of the Alevi sect leaders who lived at Medieaval age. Islamic radicals generally hate Alevi sect of Islam because of its very moderate view of Islam. It had nothing to do with Humeyni or Rushdie.
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RaptorZ    RE:Pars   2/22/2006 7:37:17 PM
"But your racism and their racism is same to me. As they are both directed at me." Pars, my friend, I could rattle off about 5-10 of my friends names that are of the muslim faith, mostly of Indian descent that rattle off kill the jew like it's nothing, and I just look at them and ask em why...and they never come up with a good excuse, they look inward and say yeah, I'm pry right. But why do they feel that way? An Indian Muslim? Hates Jews....why...they're nowhere near one another. I'll admit I have racist tendencies in my words, however, they are never directed towards the population as a whole. Every race has it's bastards, and I make a comment on em and all of a sudden it means I hate em all. No, that's not it....I think you understand where I am coming from with the Muslim community taking command of this situation. Also, the reason you are asked that question is this, No one in the States hears Muslim protest to what's going on. And believe me, a city like Detroit could make it very evident that they are against Terrorism, instead we get silence. It's like when a Catholic Priest molests a boy, you better believe the majority of the Catholics are ripping that priest and any like him apart. This is what I speak of....Actions and open dialogue for all to know. I guarantee if the Muslim world were to all at once denounce these acts, Bin laden and Co. would be a distant memory, Hamas would hold no power and perhaps the common Palestinian could enjoy life, those in Lebanon once considered to have the city called the Paris of the Middle East could again prosper on mass tourism and spread the wealth to the people......You think I hate Muslims, Middle Easterners etc....I am no racist against good people...but I will despise those who preach death under any circumstance...but I do follow the word of God in; Love thy Brother, Love thy's not just rhetoric.
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EW3    RE:you can NEVER stop terror by fighting   2/22/2006 7:54:59 PM
Sadly terrorism is like crime. You can never get rid of it completely. People are people, someone is always more than happy to find a cause to off other people. Stalin did it, Hitler did it, Mao did it. Getting rid of terrorism is like getting rid of evil, it is part of us. But, like crime, you have to fight it every chance you can. And ignoring it is only going to make it worse.
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