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Subject: IMHO, Air Marshals Aren't Enough
CJH    5/21/2006 9:16:39 PM
This will probably sound crazy although that could be because we are so influenced by the political correctness about us that serves as blinders. I believe that the airport security procedures we have exist primarily to impress the innocent traveller with how safe the government makes him. I can't believe determined terrorists won't find a way to take over a flight again in spite of security as they have before in spite of security. Air marshals are reportedly complaining that needless regulations force them to be too obvious. They believe that they can be converged on and taken out first after having been easily identified in a terrorist attack on an airliner. Instead of relying on, essentially, a few security guards and ostentatious airport procedures that treat grandma as a terrorist, I would feel safer if I could or other passengers could carry pistols concealed on flights. What I'm speculating about is letting those who already have concealed carry permits purchase specialized training and have a chance to demonstrate a reasonable level of competency to get an add on to their permits. The purpose would be to carry for their own personal defense and they would have to show they aren't a risk to innocents, air marshals or a hazard to an aircraft. I'm not saying we don't need air marshals and I'm not saying every passenger should be armed. It would suffice for any potential terrorists to know there could be 10, 20 or 30 or more ordinary people carrying and that there is no way to know which passengers are. And airport procedures need to allow everyone to board normally without showing who is getting special treatment.
 
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CJH    RE:The Failure is in not Connecting the Dots   6/2/2006 8:52:34 PM
In the case of the hijacking of an airliner for the purpose of destroying a target on the ground, a possible consequence of the passengers not regaining control could be the destruction of the airliner in the air by a military aircraft.
 
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CJH    RE:IMHO, Air Marshals Aren't Enough   6/2/2006 9:33:55 PM
"Personally I would rather not see Joe public with firearms on planes." Believe it or not all law enforcement types can have accidents and mishaps with firearms. Air marshals can make mistakes. In my own personal experience, private citizens are at least as safe and as competent in terms of the basics as law enforcement. Beyond that, experience with concealed carry holders in dangerous situations doesn't seem to brand them as a liability to innocents. "But out of curiosity, what sort of firearms are air marshalls issued? Shooting a hole in the plane may not suck people out, but regardless it isn't a good thing - what calibers are used?" Other than almost certainly pistols, I don't know. I wonder how open their service is about the details. I do remember Glasser Safety Slugs or somesuch. They are essentially pistol rounds in which the "bullets" aren't solid bullets but are plastic capsules holding bird shot. The at least 20 year old idea is that these will bring someone down while not penetrating the skin of the fusillage. Of course, the safety slugs also are supposed to not penetrate heavy clothing such as leather jackets. But they probably make nasty tissue damage. There was some reference to "liquid teflon" filled safety slugs in some movie I saw. Strange. But anyway, you get the idea. So there either could be some really unusual ammunition carried or if there is little concern for decompression, standard ammo.
 
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Nichevo    RE:IMHO, Air Marshals Aren't Enough   6/15/2006 2:31:49 AM
Glasers have birdshot suspended in liquid teflon. I understand they are all ouchies on personnel. I also believe they come in varying penetrative abilities.
 
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